You're listening to Lessons in the Field.

I'm Melinda Gilbert and today I'll be hosting the conversation as we continue sharing stories from people who have

lived this work firsthand. Our guest is someone who has spent nearly two decades operating where preparation, judgment,

and trust truly matter. Nate Bennett is the vice president of protective operations at Rescore Group.

He is a US Marine veteran and a dedicated security professional. He brings nearly two decades of

international experience in executive protection and risk management with leadership roles spanning from the

military, corporate, and family office environments. Nate has worked in high-risk regions around the world,

traveled to more than countries, lived abroad, and previously contracted with the US State Department, providing

Nate Bennett’s background (Marine → EP → leadership)

diplomatic security in Baghdad, Iraq. He's a certified protection professional, advanced EMT, and a

formally business educated leader from places like the University of Washington, and recently from Harvard

Business School, combining operational, medical, and strategic insight into the

modern modern protective operations. Please welcome to the show, Nate Bennett.

Oh, it's nice to be here, Nate. I'm I'm so glad that you one accepted my invitation to join this

because reluctantly reluctantly remember sending you the text and being like

the the beauty of of what this podcast is going to turn into is,

you know, Daniel interviewed me first and and I was so grateful for the opportunity to share my story, but then

the purpose of this is for that. It's to share someone's story. It's not a company. It's not a brand. It's not a

publicity stunt for my company, your company, you know, Allen's company. It's

sharing your story. And I was really honored when you accepted it because

um you you know how the industry feels towards silent professionals and

there is that balance of do you be that Instagram influencer, EP

lifestyle, X Y and Z influencer, do you share nothing? Um, but I love on this

platform how there is a tasteful way of sharing an inside scoop of this world

that you and I live in. And there's a way we're not telling all. We're not um

we're not cheating it. But I I also feel like there's such value to these experiences and a lot of them you and I

have actually shared to where um you are not naturally a over talkative over

you're not a you're not a LinkedIn. I feel like if you didn't have to have a LinkedIn you wouldn't have a LinkedIn. You are you are a very uh silent

professional. And so the fact that I get to kind of sit here and ask these questions for one is just an honor for

me. Um, but I think that our listeners are really going to benefit from hearing

your story and and there's going to be parts that are uh relatable. There's going to be parts that are inspirational. Um, but then also just

insight on, you know, I I shared my very unique story, but then you have a very

real, very unique story with so many different passes that we could take this this entire episode into. So, um, how

would you, for just listeners that I don't have a clue who you are, how would you describe yourself?

I mean, I think beyond my title, what I'm doing now, I'm just definitely somebody that takes astronomical

responsibility for like everything I'm engaged in and everything I'm doing. Um, kind of leading up to this, obviously,

you get questions and you get opportunity to prep and figure things out. And I do ad liib pretty well. So I

figured the best way to go about this would be to just send it out to the community. Authentic. Yes.

Family, friends, colleagues, former bosses, uh, individuals that might not like me very much probably got this. And

I gave them the real opportunity to kind of just like put things out there and then dialed it back into I think what really truly

defines me. um what kind of describes me is who I feel like I am

with a little bit of comedy humor and you know maybe some uh tmi in between

but I sent that on this platform and over to you and put it on paper and so

I'm hoping you'll uh describe who I am from other perspectives. I love this approach and it's um

very vulnerable for you to ask that because again you could might be great

feedback. It might be very I'm I'm sure it's loving to a lot of these people but I love

some of the some of the things is that people would describe you as um is you have a tough exterior especially with

Standards, care, and what people get wrong about him

people who don't know you well which can sometimes come across as guarded. However, with those close to you, you're

relaxed and playful, genuinely enjoying the simple, light-hearted moments, something that I see as a core part of

who you are. Uh, you're extremely generous, sincere, you're detail- oriented, you're quickwitted. Um, and

sometimes stress can get the best of you. Um, but then you narrow your focus and occasionally,

oh, I see. Stress can sometimes get the better of you. Narrow your focus, occasionally clouding the better

picture. But ultimately uh this often stems from how deeply you care and the purpose of

doing things the right way. That's that's what I know about you is is you do have this core value of you want

things done well. You want it done with excellence. Um a former team member said you're someone who genuinely trusts his

team once you earn it. One of the best bosses I've had and would follow him through the trenches any day. A close

family member said you throw yourself all in. You set high standards for yourself and if there's a way you will

find it. You're not afraid of conflict and you make long lasting relationships.

Um I love that testimony of

what you see is not always what you get, but once you see the inner world of Nate

Bennett, um you stay around. You you stick for the

long haul. and you're one of those through those friends that go through the muck and the mire and you'll have

fun in the process and we'll probably learn something through it and you'll

probably come out better the other side of it. Um, so I I love these kind of

feedback of of people. What is it like for you to have people that knew you as

a child and then know you from only the industry? um like childhood friends that

don't even have a world what an idea what this world of executive protection even is or risk management.

Would you say it's pretty consistent of friends from childhood to EP friends?

You know, that's a tough question. I I think the the general consensus across

the board probably is a lack of understanding but seeing the

impact. Yes. So they don't necessarily know what you're doing, why you're doing it, how

you're doing it. They don't get to see the professional version of you. They don't get to see the the Nate Bennett at

work. They don't get to see the Nate Bennett in a leadership role. They don't get to see the Nate Bennett as a teammate. they don't get to see the

behind closed doors, everything's falling apart. We're trying to put it back together. What's the

right way forward? Um, and I think one of my really good friends of probably I think it's been

about years now, been through like thick and thin with me. Um, total civilian, no background, he's

doing his own thing. um met him through a former relationship and I reached out to him and he was one

of the guys that kind of put some feedback for it and he actually said he he just broke it down and you know

genuinely actually teared me up a little bit cuz I was like this is so real but at the same time it's actually me and I

don't want to read it and I don't want to hear it. Um, but he was just basically telling me and across the

board and you know there's some of it here where it's like a tough exterior especially people you don't know where

it comes across as maybe guarded. Mhm. Um, and I think that's a lot of like what we're doing and like how we go

about life in this industry and what we're trying to build as professionals is you learn a lot about people and

intent and intentions and you know these descriptors that just red

flag themselves like the Matrix girl in the red dress where you see it, no one else does and you're just trying to like

define what that's going to translate through for the next, you know, days.

And so this individual sees me as a pretty uptight

um intense argumentative right um high expectations high standards

concise direct forward um but at the same time a happy go-lucky individual

who you know likes to just be genuine and real and you know break things down

and enjoy the moment and like get away from it all. Yeah. Um and he he broke it down in a way and

I really appreciate him for it where I was like, you know, thank you for that. Yeah. But at the same time, you know, we're

going to have some words later on some of the things you said. But, you know, that kind of transpired in the same things that family said

about me where, you know, reached out to my parents and, you know, some of this said that the feedback was, you know,

steady and unwavering. Um, you set the course and you throw yourself in. And I looked at that and I'm like, man, that's

my old man, you know, like we'll go into this, but you know,

he kind of set the tone in many different ways of like what the expectation is to lead and like the impact it is to lead and

the burden you bear when you do do so, right? Um, and you know what failure looks like

and where it comes from and behind closed doors in the spotlight or you know, kudos to

him on the pulpit. Yes. you know, then my mother saying stuff too and then kind of like breaking

it down and trying to make light of the situation because she doesn't want to dig too deep, you know, and um

there's nothing like a mother's feedback. Yeah. One of the funny things she said too, and I thought about this interview

and I go, "That's very true." She goes, "You get really irritated when they ask too many questions. We ask too many questions.

People ask too many questions." And I go, "Yes, mother. in the context of being at

home sitting at the dinner table and you guys are asking me all these details I can't share. You're never going to

understand. I can't explain, right? Um so it's really, you know, um impactful to get that feedback.

Um knowing I guess I play the good cop all the time.

I thought about that. Do you think that's Do you think that's hard? Has that been difficult for relationship with family and those

childhood friends that only know you in a certain context? Is it and I'm sure in

your military experience too maybe you experienced this of

do you enjoy the fact that you're different and you have such different experiences than them or is it

heartbreak's not the right word but is it difficult to still have things in common when so much of your life is I

mean I'm sure when you went to the Marines you changed and you came back a different person and the things that

maybe you used to connect with your siblings with your your parents. I'm sure it added a different influence.

Thanks. Or did it not? Or did it did it has it been able to still be a good bond and

you've found new things? Um,

The cost of the work: relationships & tradeoffs

things slip away. That's the best way I can describe it. Relationships slip away.

Um, your ability to connect slips away. you're because of this job or because of do you

think just even life and growing up? Well, maturity, life growing up, experience, failure, wins, successes,

everything in between. Um, but what I really found is like the difficulty comes when

you're trying to like reconnect and you get left behind in a way. Everybody else goes on without you.

Yes. and you get stuck in returning to where they're at in their timeline,

where they're at in their trajectory or what has happened, what's going on. Um,

and I slowly found myself kind of like deciding on who to connect with and what's important and who values what I

have to say in a way that makes me want to reconnect or stay connected or engage

or um be disciplined and hold my tongue, right? I I think that's a fascinating

statement because I resonate so much with that and I actually had just said it to a friend the other day of like how

is it that I'm the one that moved away. I'm the one that's having all these life experiences

but it feels like everyone back at home has just taken a different train ride and we're

at different destinations, different timelines, but I think that's a really good really good point. Yeah. And there's a there's a piece in

there where you have to kind of figure out where you slip back into like where do I reset myself? Where do I

find uh a place where I have boundaries and control and you know

I can implement what I've learned and how I think things should go into I

guess guide coach and even be a friend to people like your parents right where the relationships change where you

turn um I mean my background childhood I I was we can just get into it paint the

picture what did you what did you what did the world look like when you were growing up? Just

paints a picture for us. Well, it's a pretty deep long picture. Um,

I I grew up in a small town. We bounced around a lot. Um, my father was a

minister. That's really all I remember him as growing up in the entire time. And you

know, he pastored a couple different churches and had different jobs on whatever hierarchy that was, you know,

putting him where at certain times. We bounced between uh Tri Cities,

Washington, where I spent most of my life, and then up to Newport, Washington, where we have some

connection, small town, nobody knows about it, and yet like I've ran into so many people in the industry that come

from this neck of the world. Washington water boy. That is % of the industry is from Washington in that little corner

of the world. I think it's fascinating. Oh, it it definitely is. And some of the truest best EP operators.

It's not like, oh yeah, I know a guy that's from there. Like the best of the best are from there. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

It's pretty cool. No, it is really cool. Very proud personally. And I guess

slipping into the industry from that kind of upbringing where you know I was

a middle child. Okay. I have transition into being the adult

of the siblings. Mhm. Um, a lot of family stuff, a lot of things

in between and taking charge and control and trying to mentor and direct and

take charge of being this outsider. Mhm.

Did you Did you always feel like an outsider as a middle child? Uh, I mean, everybody else definitely

got a lot of the attention, that's for sure. But, um, not necessarily. I I kind of felt

left alone cuz I was doing my own thing. I didn't get in too much trouble early on and then later definitely did. But

the transition was interesting cuz you grow up as an individual within a small

community or a micro community but like in the spotlight. Mhm. You like everybody wants a piece of your

family, you know, whether it's positive, negative, um beneficial, or long-term.

a father and a mother that are in a community and they're everybody's counselors. They're everybody's confidants. They're everybody's

seniority. They're the individual that they want to hear from. They're like the CEO of a church and then,

you know, the first lady Yep. of, you know, two to people within a

town that's, you know, a few thousand. Yeah. And it turns into something where you start to learn

about people and like what their intent is and what they're in this for.

Yeah. It taught me a lot about like faith and religion, the differentiations between like me having a relationship with

whatever higher power you want to dictate. um and what that means for me today. And

then also growing up and seeing like the manipula manipulative behavior that happens inside of those communities

behind the closed doors in the boardrooms and the meetings. And you got these old heads that are trying to change trajectory on a church that

um my dad's just trying to be a conduit of what he thinks is his passion and calling.

And then that translates into part of, you know, who I am as a core is, you know, growing up very bluecollar.

Yeah. I didn't learn till I was years old that we were like just astronomically like broke. Sorry, mom and dad, but

Yeah. Right. You know, I don't I think it was I had a conversation with my parents and they were just like, "Yeah, like there

was there was a lot a lot going on." Wow. And you circle back and you kind of

realize it's like those Christmases where everybody from the church is kind of bringing extra guests. Yeah, you start to piece back together those

childhood memories with way more context. Yeah. Now understanding that that depth of what was actually happening behind the

scenes. And my mother, bless her heart, you know, she uh told me one time, she's like, I used to I went a few years

without getting new clothes or shoes for myself cuz you kids at the time, there was three of us,

you know, we were kind of transitioning, going through school, trying sports, expensive. There was a cost. There was a toll.

Yeah. And at the same time, you know, my my dad's running a church doing amazing

things and getting uh getting to really just like send full

Monty what passion and direction and purpose

right in front of me while I'm sitting in the pews watching my dad up there speaking

and I'm like, you know, starruck. Yeah. Did you? So, I'm surprised because

growing up with a lot of other pastor's kids, they just grow to resent their parents. They grow to resent any part of

ministry or any part of religion from that. And it doesn't sound like you have that. Why do you think that? Do you do

you think your parents were super intentional with you and having that relationship? Do you did you ever feel

like I guess dismissed because there was always someone that was calling, always someone that needed counseling,

or did you still feel like you were a priority and still loved and still um

a priority to your parents? There's the moments. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, no one is perfect.

That that's the other part it sounds like they are trying to do. It sounds like they were very healthily

living out the purpose that they knew what was for their life and had three

kids that are along for the ride. And so now we're just getting your viewpoint of

what was that ride. It was a roller coaster indeed. I mean,

you know, they did their best. Yeah. Yeah. And I think why I am so

optimistic and so welcoming and comforted by the fact of having these like mentors in my life and my parents

are still together. Yeah. But now you grow up and you start to learn like what that process was, what

they went through, like how they got there, you know, all the way back to like I remember

things kind of fall apart in a town I didn't really understand. I'm doing my own thing as a kid and like my my my old man's going through burnout.

like horrifically, you know, and he was probably

I think maybe four or five years younger than me now. Wow. That puts puts it into perspective for

sure. a couple hundred people, you know, at his doorstep all the time, you know, with three kids.

You know, my mother was studying to become a midwife in the town and like starting her own practice and,

you know, and then she got pregnant with my little brother and it kind of just started to just just spool into this

transition with some some life events even that happened at the time that we can go into. But

what really was impactful and I think what really

made me understand kind of who I was becoming was

I didn't know who was in it for what. Yeah. So I saw passion, I saw

dedication, I saw ambition, I saw drive, I saw perseverance, I saw failure, I saw

circling through just some crazy crazy stuff. And then also still leading,

right? And still managing and putting things together all the way back to I think my dad put this thing

together. Um I can't remember when it was, but it was for Halloween. And obviously like let's not go into the

dichotomy between like that world and like the other world, but it was like a

Indiana Jones themed event at the church. Yeah. Where it kind of circled into some like

lessons and trying to just like reach the community a little bit. But he went through this whole process

where the entire church and I mean there was like draw bridges going across stairs and it's like the entire thing

was decked out. Yes. And as a kid, it looked like Disneyland, but it was all themed and to

be Indiana Jones themed Halloween. Let's invite the whole entire community.

And then I remember talking about him like talking to him about it like years ago. And he was like, "Man, that thing almost

killed me." Yeah. Like it literally almost killed me. Like people were upset. They didn't understand the direction. And all he was

trying to do is just like outreach, right? but clearly putting his heart and his soul and every bit of energy into

that event and clearly still rememberable just a key point in their

childhood memory. I can like get glimpses of it. Totally. So cool. Right. It was very cool.

I can I can see that now. I had a very similar thing in in the church that I grew up in where it was a missions

conference and every uh room was a different country and we had the different missionaries from each

country and you ate a food, you had some sort of cultural experience and then you had a little plane, you had a little passport. Same exact feeling. I remember

that's the exact moment when I was like I got to travel the world. I got to I

got to get out of this town. Like this is there's a whole world to be discovered. And it's so funny how those

type of events that seem so simple. It's a it's a one two day one evening event,

but these leaders put so much heart and dedication and and the details really matter. And do you think that

I mean I I'm speaking for myself already know the answer is yes. But uh for you

it sounds like that planted so many seeds of the character that was required for

later in life and you already had a clear example of what that looked like. And so how did this really beautiful

foundation carry you into the Marine Corps and then later into you know

executive protection. Did you appreciate it at the time? No, I

don't think I did, honestly. I I mean, you're a teenager, so you take everything for granted, but Yeah. Well, at that time, I was like

elementary, middle school. I mean, there was years a couple years where I was homeschooled. Yeah. And then kind of transition to like

Reset moments & choosing the next step

public school, Christian school. Um, so a lot of changes in your childhood.

I was astronomically sheltered. Yeah. Um, I didn't even understand the things that kids were talking about when I kind

of shifted into middle school, high school. But one of like the turning points and it

kind of was like phased out where I'm learning and growing and I'm trying to figure out this town and this small town

thing and like what my parents are doing, what I'm supposed to be doing and just learning, studying, playing soccer

and all these other sports and figuring out who I am. And I started to realize it's like my friend group is extremely

small. Yeah. Like extremely small. Um, there was like the playdates as you would call them

where I don't know if this is people just trying to like put us together to where you know the adults can talk cuz

my parents are the pastors and they need something from them. Yeah. If these kids actually want to hang out with me. Um,

you know the school times where I think a little bit of the transition was I was

sheltered. Yeah. I wasn't cool. Yeah. I mean I I at one point I had a

bleach blonde bull cut bif focal glasses bull cut wearing Rugrats teachers t-shirts in

elementary school thinking that like I was the thing and all these other kids bliss at that age

with all of these other lifestyles and parents and influence and pop culture like I didn't know how to catch up like

I didn't know what was what and it started to make me realize it's like it was very distrusting on like who

who didn't to who to believe okay you know there's wholesome individuals ual from my upbringing that like cared

for us and there's other individuals that they wanted stuff from my my family, my parents. Yeah.

And then there was a very big event in town. Um my older brother and myself

were both friends with you know quite a few people. Some were attached to the church, some weren't. Most were attached

to school. There's a big car accident. Um multiple kids passed away in this car

accident and one was my one of my best friends, like one of my only friends at the time. And then the other one was another

friend, acquaintance from school that we hung out at school and then, you know, he came to the church a little bit. And another one was my older brother's

friend and he was driving the car. Um,

that changed everything. Yeah. So that changed the impact with like what my family was dealing with. That

changed the impact of like what I was dealing with and like how to transition and like understand these kinds of things. And I think it was about a year

that kind of went by while we were figuring this all out. And I just remember like now we're moving.

My dad's resigning from the church. Because of the grief. I don't know. Wow.

We've talked about it and like I guess I would still ask the question like what really kind of like what was the sequence of events? But we left.

We left town. Like I left everybody that I knew. Wow. I left everything that I was comfortable with.

And then that started this weird transition where now we're moving to Tri Cities, Washington.

I middle of nowhere. Yeah. jumping in with our grandparents. Yeah. You know, living in a mother-in-law

suite on a blowup mattress, right? While my siblings have the only other two bedrooms stacked in there and we're

transitioning now into like this public school fear sphere where

it was eye opening to say the least. And then I had to just figure it all out. How old were you at this point?

I think it all happened in the sixth grade. And then I remember jumping into I think middle school in the seventh

grade and Tri Cities and then just kind of getting this like middle school is hard enough then to add

small town that yeah upbringing whole world just shattered. Yeah. Just it just changes

right. But at this time there was this thing that would happen in that

community and like the Christian community where you know people would kind of like I guess tell you more so

like what they see in you like what you're supposed to be. I was a pastor's kid. I was supposed to do something big.

I was supposed to be a future. You're going to change the world. Yeah. And there's this pressure that gets put on you where you're scrutinized

and you're looked at. But it made me think about it's like, "Oh, wow. What is that?"

And so then we turn into a transition where I just I changed everything. It's

like I got contacts. I buzzed my head, cut my hair short kind of thing. I

started wearing different stuff. I was looking at other people figuring out like how do I be like that person? How

do I like assimilate? How do I adapt? Because I just got that like no one

around me right now is going to have the the same intentions that I feel. They're not gonna have the same moral compass.

They're not going to understand what I understand. They're not going to think like I think, but how do I understand

them better? And then you start to just drift into this new version of yourself that's almost

demanded and you don't necessarily want it, but if you don't do it, you know you're going to be left behind. And so we

started to just transition. My dad left the church, started working for another one, eventually goes into sales, and

then we just become like everybody else. Wow. So, so those people speaking that over

you, it was inspirational. That's was it? Yeah. It was encouraging of like, no, you have

so much it ahead of you. Yeah. Yeah, it's TMI and probably too much for everybody that's going to

listen to this, but there was this interesting thing that, you know, me, my older brother, and my dad

Mhm. always talk about. And there was this comment made where it's like, these boys are going to be

the sons of Thunder. Yeah. And I was like, hell yeah. Thor, right?

Odin, you just now. And my dad's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Wrong denomination, son.

Right. you know, that's that's not No, that's like some pagan stuff. Um, but you know, all jokes aside, it

was this moment where I I grew up in this way where I I was obsessed with like James Bond and all these other

things and I'd love to go out and adventure and I'd be skating around town with my friends

and, you know, my brother helped build a skate park in Newport, Washington. And I just knew that there was something

like there was literally something just calling Yeah. on my life and I couldn't figure it out.

And my older brother plays music, my dad played music. I thought that like that

was going to be my next thing or like I was supposed to do that. And I really got heavily involved in those kinds of things and something I passionately care

about. Um it's drifted away because of the transition, but what was that calling?

What was I supposed to be doing? Yeah. What made Nate Nate? And it always felt

like the hardest way to describe it would be to imagine that reincarnation

existed. Again, phauxa, don't talk about that. Wrong denomination, son. Um,

it was in fact like I was of who you are.

Like I was trapped in this nerdy sheltered little body

identity. That's really what it is. Now you're stepping into your real identity. Absolutely. I love that.

Yeah. And then, you know, long story short, high school transition, you know,

trial by fire for sure. Um, but I I I eventually just like drifted into, you know, I played more

sports. Um, did like club basketball, really got into it. I find found that I was like naturally athletic. Started

rollerblading and skateboarding, you know, doing flips on half pipes and like just random stuff, but nothing ever

clicked. like I was never really passionate about much. Um, and then I guess like you know come

full circle and jumping down the rabbit hole a little bit. I

/and the pull toward service

went to school on I jump in the library, my older brother

and his friends cuz I was still figuring it out. This is roughly freshman year,

you know, got there seventh grade, th grade, freshman year. Like I haven't quite figured it out yet. I'm like

letting my older brother lead the way. And so some of his friends were my friends or at least at school. And I

felt protected by that. I felt safe by it. I felt like I needed that safety

net. And it made me think about just like protecting and all these other things that kind of translate, you know,

to later on. Now that I'm thinking about it, but teachers rolled out a you know those old

like maybe you don't remember but you know those like old rickety

metal stands with like a tube television on top that they do teacher rolls it out

and it's like you know a sex ad conversation you're like oh god what's the video going to be today? That was it. It was the news.

Got it. and and the towers are falling and it just like sparked something like

it it hit me so hard where I was like oh yeah like I felt I felt wounded by it

really. Yeah. And then I started just figuring out what was next like how I was going

to go about it. And I think that transitioned into, you know, the big lessons on like

finding purpose and value and, you know, a direction moving forward. And it just

like it sat with me, haunted me. It was like in the back of my head all the time. It lowered my grade point average.

Wow. To the point where like high school was not a time for me. Um

I don't think it was anyone's time. No. I I I I drifted into I getting into a little bit of trouble.

You know, I got suspended from high school like so many times. Um, and you know what's funny about it is a lot of

it was for things like um, you know, some kid at school gets spit on and I see it happen and I

confront the guy and I'd been bullied by the same guy and then sure enough like you know I'm the

one getting suspended after the altercation or you know a really funny one was this one guy and you know hopefully I hope he

I hope he listens to this. We had a we had a party. I think it was like sophomore year or something like

that. We had a party and he uh the simplicity of the action is what's

hysterical. He stole like a liter root beer out of my backpack.

We didn't have a lot of money. My parents just bought some extra stuff. I got a ticket to school and I felt like I

was contributing. I felt like I was a value ad and like it just didn't get to the point

where that going to get taken. And so like I had this extra stuff in my bag that I was like, "Hell yeah, I'm taking

this home and I'm going to get the buddies over and, you know, we're going to get in the basement, play some

Nintendo and have a great night." And he stole it out of my backpack. Oh no. And then it's lunchtime and they're all

in the hallway like sitting in a row sitting back and they're like pouring out the root beer in the hallway and I

walk by and sure enough this guy kind of just looks at me and smirks.

And I don't know what it was, but it just like set me off. And so I grabbed the root beer and I

proceeded to walk over all of them and just pour it out. Just enjoy it. Yeah. And then I walked myself in the

principal's office and I go, "Mr. So and so, um, I'm just going to let you know that we should probably talk about this

before, you know." And it was like again, yeah, me now. Extreme accountability. Yep.

Upbringing. Yeah, I knew I did something wrong. Whether it was simple or not, it was just like that

moment of like, okay, yeah, call my parents. Yep. We're going to deal with this. This is just part of the process.

And that was that was that figuring out this fighter spirit.

Yes. It sounds like it really ignited that switch to just flip and then you

were locked on. Yeah. this warrior ethos, this pent up, not aggression,

just discombobulated purpose like what was next.

Yes. And like these kind of actions and interactions and things they just transitioned into um you know taking

more charge over like myself and like picking my friends and building relationships of people that are still

around to this day. And then the transition into, you know,

starting to get into like backyard boxing. Yeah. Where at school they had these like

Friday night fight nights, like everybody would get together and me being me at the time, Nate was always

the DD. Okay. So we'd go to these things and well sure enough it was easy for me to

throw boxing gloves on and jump in a circle and you know give a show not having a lick of clue what I was doing

being completely sober while everybody else is having a good time

and then sure enough it's like you know you get some accolades from it you get

some attention from it and then it kind of inflates your ego and you go oh wow and then I started tapping into things

like Yeah. Right. And then, you know, get to the end of high school and I go,

I know what I'm doing. Yeah. And I always knew what I was doing. It sounded like it was just the momentum

just kept building and building. And is is that what then finally just was the

thumbs up for the Marines or did you had any other branch that you were interested in or is it always Marines?

I wanted to go and do the highest of the high. Yeah.

Like I wanted to be the next

secret squirrel. Mhm. I just had no context of what that looked like. I had nobody in my life. No

direction. There was no college. Um I think my grandfather was in the Air Force and there's maybe somebody else,

but I was a first generation Marine. Okay. So come high school

finishing, I started talking to a recruiter. I enlisted. Mhm.

And I was one of those guys that stood up at graduation. It's like Nate Bennett's going to go to the Marine

Corps and you stand up loud and proud. Okay. And then that spiraled into, you know, what then

recreated me even more, which was understanding, perseverance, and what no

Getting told “no” + cutting through red tape anyway

sounds like. Yeah. I didn't get in. Two years went by. I went to community

college. And I did community college because at that point I was starting to learn like how to prep, how to plan, how

to logistically set yourself up for success in the best way possible. And you could get a promotion by getting

a certain amount of credits from college. So I went to community college and I go to enlist again. They say no.

And then I finished community college. I go to enlist again and they say no. I almost left for the Marine Corps about I think it was three times.

Wow. I wrote and and you were still just determined. I'm this is what I'm going to do. Yeah.

Clearly didn't deter you. My my friends through going away parties. Yeah. And I left. And what it turned out is

there was a typo in my medical records that nobody noticed. Nobody failed to look at attention to detail. No.

I was somewhat bypassed in a way where it made me have to figure it out on my own.

My recruiter threw me out. My parents were like, "This is not you." like maybe this is not your calling. This is not

what you're supposed to do. This is a sign. Um, everybody told me no. Everybody told me

no. I wrote my congressman and the guy was actually in the town at

the time, funny enough. I don't know what congressman was in Tri Cities, Washington, but

I wrote this congressman. I still have the letters. It's actually in some of my military records, I believe. Don't quote

me on that. But I wrote him and what I got back was, "I can't help you. Here's who to call."

I blew up their phones for like a month and a half. Talked to somebody, found out there was

a typo, and days later, I was leaving for the Marine Corps. Wow. Wow.

So, all things considered, the grit to just even stay up until the

start point. Now, you're still at the start. You still have so much to go through. I was belligerent. Yeah. Being a Marine to me was like

the thing. Mhm. And in that process, I had enlistment options. So, I lost the opportunity to

actually do what I really wanted to do. Okay. I lost the opportunity more times than I

think I can count based off of the timing and they need to get slots and, you know, numbers.

But I finally went in and I went in as a Bground option, which is basically an

open contract. And then I get to, you know, boot camp,

step on those yellow footprints and the world changes. Then everything changed.

Like everything changes. Like I thought I knew what I was getting into and I had no idea.

Yeah. And then again, I fought and fought and fought and fought and fought.

You know, I made somewhat of a name for myself both by getting um into a bit of

trouble in boot camp, what we would call extra attention. Mhm.

And then also assuming lots of push-ups. Oh, yeah. I was their special creature

for a while. Um, and I had a kind of an interesting and I think you'll get this,

but I had this uh this problem with uh what we call bearing,

right? If it's funny, it's funny. And I had such a hard time not laughing,

holding my, you know, holding it all in and like trying not to You and I are both probably not the best

poker players. It was It was pretty Actually, I'm a pretty good poker. Are you okay? Okay. Yeah, I figured it out. the Marine Corps

taught me. You got to teach me. Okay, I'm terrible at that. You know, go through all that and there

was some instances where, you know, I I stepped up and kind of figured out like what

teams were like and what taking care of your peers were like and where it's not about me, it's about

other people. And you know, you go out on what we call a smoke deck, you go out

in the pit, and your drill instructor is just grueling you, like push-ups, jumping jacks, like

you're crying, you're you're snotting out of the mouth, like you got nothing left. And then you find it,

you get your second one, like that runner's high they always talk about, like it's a real thing. And you find

this intestinal fortitude to be able to actually push forward and to move on and to figure it out. And I remember

there was this one time where my recruiter got this information from my drill instructor cuz I guess they

were boys back in the day in the Marine Corps and he went out to be a recruiter. He stayed as a DI and did his thing. They

knew each other. Never had any idea. Um but we're getting smoked one day and I kind of just like realized this guy's

Leading under pressure (team-first leadership)

falling out and because he's failing the rest of us are failing. So we continue because somebody's the weak link,

right? translates into today. Yes. And like how I lead and what I care about and like a

team moving forward together. But he was falling out and I just like scooted up in the push-up position,

grabbed him by the back of the shirt. And I start doing one- arm push-ups, helping him pull up,

and that guy, that DI actually went back to my recruiter and told my recruiter

about it, and my I think my family found out about it. And it was like this loud proud moment where I was like, "Okay,

yeah, I'm seeing something differently. I feel something differently." And I'm like reaching out to put myself into not

harm's way, but like I'm punishing myself as this year-old kid

to just help somebody else so we can succeed together. Cuz I I started to click and I started to get

it. And so I started to learn those pretty good lessons in the Marine Corps, at least in boot camp. And then again,

you know, I I wanted to be combat arms. Okay. I wanted to do more. Mhm.

And the job they gave me at the time was not going to be that. I mean, you might as well made me a cook,

right? you know, but I fought again, went to

Marine combat training, and then they ask questions where they're like, "Hey, so who's got uh

problem with this, this, this, and this?" And I'm like

over and over and over again to where I got the attention of an individual that happened to be a combat engineer.

Um he asked me a hard question one day and it turned into uh an extracurricular

activities of me learning, studying, figuring out what I wanted, figuring out how to get it

and pitching what I wanted. I pitched him good enough when I got

pulled aside, he changed my MOS. He changed my job description. Wow. And at that point, based off my

contract, I wasn't going to get anything better until later on maybe some other transitions.

And then I go to Marine combat training or sorry, excuse me, uh, combat engineer

training out in North Carolina. Okay. Um, same thing. There's division, there's airwing, and

there's group. Okay. group and airwing is kind of like I don't know, you're going to patch

runways as an engineer and build some stuff, right? Um move some heavy equipment around,

right? Not appealing. Like I wanted combat arms. I wanted to do that kind of thing. Like it was just

like action fire. Yes. And I got the vision.

And then I show up to my unit during some of the big fires in kind of

Camp Pendleton area SoCal. And then it kind of just all panned out from there.

Start drifting into understanding what leadership is,

understanding what management looks like. Yeah. Understanding who does what and why and how. Understanding what a team looks

like. Understanding where promotions that are forced or like a cycle Yes. of

expectation. Yes. Put the wrong people in the wrong place for the wrong reasons. Results from that. Absolutely.

And then catastrophic failure happens. um to then making mistakes and

having to recover from it and taking extreme ownership and accountability and

taking your licks. Even if you'd rather be, you know, put

on a board or, you know, tried. Mhm. For some simple action, you just say

yes, sir. No, no, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. I did that. Or I'll take the

consequences. And just figuring out like when's the right time and place to just

take accountability and to move forward and how that affects other people around you where your actions and your interactions

and the things and the choices and the decisions that you make, they ultimately turn into something that infects

everybody around you. Throw a pebble into a pond or river, whatever. It all has a different effect.

But it does create ripples whether something washes it out or whether or not

It just drifts all the way to another shoreline, still water, and there's

really no change or impact you can have on what it's the trajectory of what your actions decided.

Mhm. And then I recover from that and

get in a unit that was astronomically amazing with some of the best leadership that I've ever experienced.

um to the point where you know some things happened. You know, obviously

during those times it was pretty rough and you know we lost some people and then now still to this day these guys get

together and go out to Arlington Cemetery. Wow. And do this memorial for him almost you

know every single year. I did my first brother that brotherhood's still there. Yeah. I did my first one last year and it was actually pretty impactful seeing

these guys after all these years, right? And I'll never forget it and I'm probably going to go again, you know, coming up. But

it just all compounds, right? all these actions and

interactions and you don't think about it until later and you don't really understand that this maturity and

growing up and transitioning through all these phases and trials and tribulations and pieces of life they they just

add. And I think if you can't understand how to put that Lego set together

Yep. Well, and how fortunate that you as I'm

as I'm listening to you, I I do love that you didn't share shy

away from especially the context of your childhood

because you know professional environment you know religion politics we don't talk about that but I I the

more I learn and meet people in this industry the more there is very similar

stereotypes and very similar personalities that have many stories that could probably relate to you.

Yeah. And that's what I love about this is it's it's your story. It's it shows so clearly on how

exactly like you're saying of you you have this this environment you're growing up and what a blessing honestly

to have that crisis force you to shed that false

identity. Now walk into your true identity and then have someone speak all this potential of

what your life could be and that it's fully inside of you and then that's stirred that fire inside of you and then

you're going through high school just just pumped just you know ex you know

you've got the the momentum's building and then now you're in a team environment environment where it's not

just Nate against the world now it's Nate's team against the world And then you're learning and and molding it with

the with the play-doh of what it actually looks like of of team now

crushing it and doing those operations and checking that box. all these things. I I love this trajectory of how no

experience is wasted and it really just kept building on it like the Lego piece

just like you're saying it just kept adding more and more details but that foundation was there which kudos to your

parents and the intentionality of your family but then carrying that on to the

Marines and then later in life and and

then into executive protection and and what it brings and and I always say how

executive protection this is it's a fun job you know we all want to be James Bond we all want to be GI Joe or GI Jane

and there's that persona of what this job is but we're really in the people

business you are you are dealing with I mean when you're in leadership it's like

you're a parent you're constantly correcting disciplining motivating

encouraging um these these people underneath you. Good coping.

Yes. Good copy and bad coping. All of these these it's it's a human business

that we're in. And now that's just our team. That's not our principles. That's not these people that we're protecting

and in the most intimate part of their life. But I love that because how

fortunate for you to have that so young of no this is who I am. This is my identity. this is my purpose of you know

not brothers of thunder but you know the alternative of that of no I'm a fully confident human being that I know I'm

fully capable to do x y and z and how did how did you then you know coming out

Transitioning out: injury, identity, and restarting

of the marines make that transition to executive protection did you how did you even

understand that world or get introduced wow I mean

is that a is a big leap or yeah it's a It's a another transition.

Yeah. Another phase of life. Another kind of trajectory or road you take

where you don't necessarily know which fork and section that is going to be

the destination. You just have to decide and take one. And part of that was decided for me leaving

the Marine Corps. Okay. Um I wanted to do more. I was actually

about to reinlist. I was working on the packet. Um, but what I wanted to do at the time, it wasn't going to happen. I

got hurt. Um, I'd gotten hurt and I took that upon myself to

sit back and just contemplate like what's next? And the job that I was in at the time

and who I was with drastically changed. This is the time when, you know, there

was combat replacements to Afghanistan and like my buddies and everybody else is getting just pulled away.

Everything that I was comfortable with and everything that I knew and that team environment that kept me going, kept me motivated and kept me

like passionate about being a Marine and this camaraderie and this core of

individuals where I'm like, you're my people and I want to be next to you doing the next thing together. They're

gone. So, it was what do I do next? And I just

got kind of put into a position where I got pushed into what we call kind of

like a be billet and I was helping coach instruct for marksmanship training as

like my last I think it was like six, seven months in the Marine Corps. Okay. um right across the street from

what was uh they transitioned to the Marine Corps mixed martial arts location

where a lot of the guys were training and so I'd pop across the street and I'd do a little training and then I'd do the

coaching thing and then you'd finally get that formal training that you needed. Yeah. And so I learned a little bit and

then um I can't remember how it happened but like I I was pretty banged up and I

ended up needing to get surgery and so I went through this process of going to the Marine Corps and getting

surgery and then I'm phasing out and I'm already in my last like three months

and then I want to do this next thing but that next thing is going to be big. That next thing is going to require me

to be the best version of myself to try out to make it through this indoctrination process to then

move forward and hopefully get a slot and get selected to be able to do that and it just wasn't going to happen.

Yeah. Like we didn't know I wasn't done with my like rehab all simple all fairly just

like cut and dry like it was just the process and I just go I'm getting out.

I'm just I'm just not going to do it. I don't want to come back. I don't want to be here. I don't want to be here without anybody here. And I just made the the

young decision. I was like, I'm done. I'm out. Um at the time, I was in a relationship.

And this individual, she was um

pretty motivated on traveling. Okay. She got a job teaching English in Bangkok, Thailand.

And I literally go, I'll go. So, couple months after the Marine

Corps, I stop back off at home. I'm there for a little bit. I get a ticket. did pack my small bags. Boom. I'm

full-time, full-fledged Bangkok, Thailand. Straight from the Marines to Bangkok, Thail. That whole like thawing out,

you're doing that in Thailand. It never happened. It never happened. Okay. No, I talk about this some and I've

mentioned this before. or we might have even talked about it in the past on our old team, but I just never really had the opportunity

to thaw out cuz you go from I I think I was in like eight different countries, whether that was training, traveling, or

you know, like simple operations during the time, but I transitioned into now a foreign

country as an expat living in like a tiny little studio shack while somebody's teaching English at a school

that's teaching children and I'm like early s. Yeah. and then trying to figure it out.

So I go, what do I do? And thinking like steps ahead, what is going to help me

set myself up for success to get to the next level? And well, GI Bill School. So

I actually, again, don't quote me on this, but there's a school in Bangkok,

Thailand that I ended up studying at international business. Okay. while I was training Muay Thai somewhat

full-time but like very actively and this school didn't necessarily

understand like the GI bill process. I think, again, don't quote it, but I

think I was a part of the process of them actually understanding what it was and then getting it accepted to where now I can use my benefits to get this

school paid for, right? Which helped me actually go to school and to sustain to live there for that

time, right? So, I did that. I pumped out like they this interesting system where you go to

a class like three days a week or like two days a week and you're knocking out like two courses a month versus like the

US-based system where you know you're doing this over time. It was intensive. A lot of this course

work, a lot of the material, it's all happening in class every And what was the what was the thought

behind that of you were then going to go do business? Yeah, I thought that maybe business was

the thing. And at that same time, what was happening was I had seen and I had

Discovering executive protection (the start of EP)

heard and I had discussed and I had talked about and I had researched

this bodyguarding stuff. Yeah. I had saw some threec car packages or

like these black vehicles at these locations where, you know, me and the ex at the time

would go see friends or she had like college professor friends in their like

school communities. And I started like, okay, what is that?

How do I get into that? And then I started learning about everything else that's out there and like who does what

and why and how. But I had no context or information. I just knew I've got to put this somewhere.

And then I go, okay, well, how do we get there? Education, maybe. Like, is that the next step? Everybody's

doing it. Everyone was doing it, right? You know, no offense to my family at

all, but like I had no help, right? I didn't know, right? She technically helped me out. Yeah.

And so I go to school and I'm doing these classes. And I knock out like courses in

Well, no, I think it was a little more. I think it was around like the the middle teens.

What else were we going to do in course work in months, right? Wow. So, I'm getting ready to leave Thailand

cuz both of us at the time were applying for schools and like I was trying to actually the next phase is like a degree

from Thailand like only goes so far. So then I go, okay,

what's like my Harvard right now based off of my high school, the

right halfass job that I did in community college to get that promotion to go in the Marine Corps, which was the process.

It was for a purpose. Yeah. And I I was like, "Okay, let me apply to some schools." I got into a few,

but home was Washington. Yeah. University of Washington, like Foster School of Business. I got in to the

university. I mean, got told no about the business school. Had to fight for it

again. Of course. Yeah. Sensing a theme here. There's a theme of like everybody tells

you no. And guess what? There's a gray area in the world that like red tape is just tape. Just tape.

There's ways through it. One side sticky which we understand in this world gets very well. Yes.

Um with power and influence then comes the ability to kind of move mountains and make things happen. And I was

discovering it along the way. So I go to University of Washington and boom, there's this veteran community,

right? This veteran community was shout out fourb block. Um this individual that I knew that was

actually with the unit that I deployed with and another guy that I knew from that unit

were kind of like starting it. Okay. They were figuring out how to get that like Pacific Northwest,

right? As four block I guess was growing. Okay. I think that's the story at the time. I got attached to them and then I start

realizing that the process of that was they're trying to platform to put me

into positions to to interview to do informational interviews was like I think we did one with like Amazon

uh Microsoft for business. Yeah. really for business and like to talk to them about opportunity and I had it in my

head that like what's this executive protection and security stuff

and so I start going into these interviews and one of the most profound moments is

I was in an interview with this individual and he was a former um veteran

and I'm talking to him now former veteran I thought we're on the same page he's corporate

he has no idea what I'm talking about as far was like trying to tap in and protect their seauite, right?

And I'm young and passionate and eager and I'm trying to like pitch myself into

this position of like this is what I want to do. Make a make a position. Put

me in what I want, right? Um you're not even knowing what it looks like. That's what I love about this right now.

You're red tape and I'm giant scissors. So that same individual in that same

group again, team community, um,

paying it forward, taking care of your own, trying to give back

and he got me an introduction with a vendor company at the time and they had a guard job

open. So my first job in the industry was a mix between working a simple

executive bottom floor for their small firm where

I'm the only individual couple nights a week into doing security operations coordination. So, planning

the implementation phase. Um, vendor company has all of these different projects moving around and little Nate

is the one that's connecting and booking the hotels and trying to like put the pieces together. So, I started to learn.

I started to learn like what's what and who's doing what and who's who and like what clients that company had

and like what a team was and what EP really was and where it was ad hoc

versus full-time embedded like wow. So, your introduction to the

industry is just at that base level real life. You don't even have schooling. You don't have other EP teams that are

showing. Did you even know what a EP team was? I kind of had an idea like a close protection detail.

Yeah, I kind of had an idea which is part of the funny story is that I got my start because of that connection with

that veteranbased community and you know organization trying to set us up for success and

I landed a spot but then I got put into a position where now I'm actually helping orchestrate

things at a level that I should never have been doing it with. That's what's confusing me exactly. How did you do this?

Yeah. sitting next like was small office. I mean it was probably four times the size of this and there was

three desks in it. The two other people were like running the company and I was their security

operations coordinator. Wow. Technically admin. Yeah. Hearing, seeing and doing all these

things and then that just transitioned into this like it's me.

I'm hungry, eager, and passionate. And like I can't shut up about everything else that we have going on

and how do I get involved? I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. put me on it. Let me have it. Power of saying yes.

And then you hear no, no, no, no, no. Start to understand why and then figure out, okay, what's next? So I go, okay,

I'm about to graduate from this business school that I reluctantly got into. Or

not reluctantly, I was eager to get into it, but they told me no. And then I knocked on some doors and made some

comments and cut some red tape to get in again. And it crushed it. It's the best

I've ever done in any school. Yeah. I'm like a curve average where like I never thought that I would excel in

the way that I did and I did really well and I was really proud about it. I didn't I didn't go to my graduation.

I went to a -day PSD EP course. Also using the GI Bill.

Yeah. You know, bless that program. Yes. Um and they gave me time off to go do it cuz I just kind of started all the

things were happening at the same time. Okay. And then it was like, what can I do next? What's the next course?

Did Did that EP school did you feel like you had a really better understanding of

the industry between close protection, residential, clandestine, celebrity

protect? Was it was it kind of an introduction into, hey, this is what your path forward could be like, or was

it great, now I just finally have the certification to keep doing what I was already doing.

to put it together. I think there's a lot of influence

in who you're doing things around. So, I was fortunate to be able to be in

a room with individuals that had been doing it for a very long time. the things I heard, the things I was a part

of, the conversation pieces that were popping up, um the opportunities that I got to like

use my brain and my education and then my background in like combat engineer in the Marine Corps and put together like

when the drones were coming out. I did this cool report on for a client that was all about countering drones and I

was thinking about ways that I would use it, right, given the demolition's background to

then implement it and that's happening in Ukraine, right? Like it's a big deal now. But then I was

like, "Oh, this is going to be great." It didn't really go anywhere. Yeah. But industry is still a little slow on

drones right now. I was able to tap into these individuals that had backgrounds in like other government agencies or

corporate executive protection. Um, British government level stuff

and talk and to chatter and to ask and inquire and be a sponge and just soak

everything that I could up. Yeah. And then that gave me opportunities and then they put me in the positions and I still appreciate

them to this day and has a special place in my heart where I got my start, but they put me in the spots and they gave

me the opportunity. And one of those big ones was a full-time executive protection program for my first ultra

high net worth client. Okay. As a -year-old. Yeah. Jumping right in and just going

got serious real quick. What is this? What did I just step into?

All right, Nate. One thing that that I love especially about your story is you really have dabbled in quite a few of

the different types of security. You've you've clearly, as you're saying, you know, started with the the corporate

security, you've had the the celebrity protection, you've had the international

diplomatic, you've had the the um covert protection. We did that together for a

few quite a few years. Um, what for you has been

Guatemala: the “this is real” moment

what was the moment where in your career you were like it it got serious of, oh,

this isn't this isn't just a job. This isn't just a a box check. This is different than the

military, but like, oh, this is what EP is. When was that moment where you you

just locked in of wow? Well, again,

life transitions you in different ways where you get put down paths that you might not necessarily have chosen for

yourself or agreed upon or

tried to tackle. Mhm. And I had another opportunity to, you know,

follow somebody at the time that I cared about that got another job teaching English. Yeah.

In a foreign country. Yeah. And I found myself in Guatemala for two and a about two and a half years. And

there was a brief couple month transition between the company that I was at and doing the EP stuff, putting

in my resignation reluctantly cuz I just I felt like that was a good place for me.

Yeah. And then jumping into right back into full-fledged, living off the community

full-time, paying rent in a foreign country and

figuring out what's next. And I had gotten connected through some military connections through or to a company that

was doing close protection, you know, protecting

diplomats and protecting, you know, I think they had contracts at the time with other government organizations in

the area that I knew about and participated in some, but most of it was oil and gas,

you know, on the Pacific and Caribbean coast of Guatemala. And then some of it was like ad hoc coverage for

philanthropy or you know scientific organizations that were kind of moving into the country and needed protection

for the things that they were doing. Um and

I had interviewed for this and one of the processes was like you don't speak Spanish.

Oh right. Which I didn't right at all. I mean I grew up in a town where there it was like the second language

but at the same time I did not speak it. They put me in like a eightweek intensive about eight hours a

day, four or five days a week in Antiggo, Guatemala, where I'm talking back and forth with somebody like this

that just is only letting me use Spanish and giving me lessons and homework and stuff while I was working at this

company. They just started throwing me at stuff um weird stuff,

stuff I probably at the time should have never been a part of. But at the same time then realizing the astronomical

weight of oh this is real. Yeah. Like this is actually

me being in charge of now local nationals years my senior because this client wanted an expat American

to be running whatever protection detail of five to of their

little diplomats that you're protecting or they local couple of

Yeah. A couple of assignments that we did were um US-based companies coming in there to do

their thing in different locations. Um there was other projects that the company was a part of that were

attached to other organizations and doing different stuff. Um, one of the missions that I did was, you know, being

attached to a government organization protecting an individual that was doing stuff in San Salvador, El Salvador,

while I was taking care of a media executive that was a part of their motorcade process,

okay, and moving in and out of embassies and stuff like that. And

the short version of Guatemala was it was just a trying time for me of assimilating

learning a language the best that I could and then also getting tossed at a project that was almost my full-time

detail was running a what we call like a quick reaction force or a guard force for an oil and gas

facility that was on the coast Pacific coast of Guatemala.

um managing guard force mostly in Spanish. Yeah. And our job was just to take care of

this facility as trucks were moving on and off. Um very residential security kind of feeling, but it was oil and gas

and facility. understanding the engineering aspects of things and like what the processes were and what they

were doing and doing mobile protection for their bank runs locally and

learning the reality of now the Marine Corps transition to Thailand to now

university back in the states and corporate EP that's not that sexy but it's still pretty cool

things we got to do and now I'm back like in the grind right sometimes on my phone, you know, driving

a Toyota Hilux or a Nissan Frontier on a coastline by myself wearing '

khakis combat boots and looking like a contractor type. Yeah. Being that guy as a gringo in a location where I

probably, you know, was getting all the attention. I did. I got tons of attention.

And there was one day where I was driving to work and this wasn't that big

of a highlight for me, but it was just kind of like became not every day, but it became normal. Mhm.

Um, you know, there was local organizations and

people that were attacking what the company that I was working for was trying to facilitate and organize

and give safe harbor to. Yeah. and driving on to the facility one day,

there's this long dirt road. It's coming down this like Guatemalan highway towards the coast and you bang this

right and I'm turning in the corner in my technical POV that we were renting in

Guatemala City and drop that off and I'm going to be there for two weeks and

I drive by and there was this dude in this little goalie watty whatever you

want to call it area this irrigation canal with all of these locals kind of crowded around taking pictures and like

there was no law enforcement, there was no EMS. No one was there yet. This guy had gotten executed.

Wow. By whatever person they were connected to or organization they were connected to,

but it turned out that they were actually somewhat tied to the organization and the place that I was

working for. And it dawned on me. And I'm like,

somebody was supposed to do something, somebody said something, somebody was tied in somewhere. There's leverage

here. just the I my mind raced. Yeah. And oh damn, this is real.

Yeah, this is real. This is pretty real. Yeah. And then that's when I started diving

down the rabbit hole even more. Um shorten it up a little bit. The two and

a half yearsish in Guatemala, I kept coming back to the States. I was doing

tons of training. I was doing courses in technical surveillance countermeasures on my own. Um spending all my own money.

Mhm. I came back and I did other EP programs or you know um tactical based stuff.

Mhm. Um cuz there was an arm component that we were dealing with as well and I was a part of that and

I also went through like covert entry training learning how to like lockpick and do these things and to get into to

vehicles and to bypass things and I was always just thinking like what do I need to know to be better to just understand

like what if right? And then that's when I was like, I need to start getting medically trained

cuz in the event something happens, there's not a ton you can do. There's the reactive piece of responding to

incident and then there's the proactive piece of absorbing the risk that is going to create it in whatever way you

can and to just like create those layers or those concentric rings or the industry standard on whatever

to get there which is not dealing with it avoidance

at all costs which is most of our job right and so I you know became an EMT and then

I started studying And then I started getting involved with, you know, like again tapping back into that like PSD

training which is ultimately more of a high threat model to doing executive protection,

right? And then I still started to just get that like fire burning of like I need to scratch

this itch. Yeah. Like what's next? It's like you keep putting tools in your in your toolbox and you just keep

finding more and more reasons why you need to add to it. I love that.

And it was like this insatiable hunger to try to learn, to grow, to get better, to collect experience. And I say that a

lot, collecting experience, because I don't feel like my trajectory and my transitions in between anything has been

anything more than circumstantial, but also a collection and like what can I

get the most out of where I'm at here and how is that going to benefit me? and if I can decide and I can implement the

next decision or the next phase of my life, what is that going to be? And that was probably the first time where I got

Cutting tape: WPS path + high-threat experience

to decide. So I went through the process to get attached to and apply for the

state department but as a contractor for what you call worldwide protective services or whips.

Whips. Yeah. Which a lot of guys come from these days. And again, common denominator,

there's many, many, many times that I tried to do that, but because of my military background and what I did, I

didn't check the right boxes. Some were absolute Mhm. BS, right?

I knew that. And I'm like, I'm scissors on red tape. Try me. Let me have it. Let

me add it. I cut it. I finally cut it. Mhm. Um, and I sacrificed everything to cut

that tape. Yeah. And I got in and that also helped me with some of those processes where I've

got clearance things working and an organization goes, "Hey, like you can't get in here. You can't do this with us.

You're not vetted. Yeah. You can't pass the test or we don't know you." And I'm like,

"Red tape. Uh, red tape. Red tape. Red tape. Hey, can I give you everything that I got? Military background. D

I've got clearance paper paperwork processing. Have it. Have it. Have it. Have it. And then sure enough on one

specific thing that I did in El Salvador, um these guys go, you're good. You're

in. And then I'm working with individuals way above my station as you would call

it. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the coolest experiences in my career doing things that I never thought I'd be in part of

landing places I never thought that I would see being in charge of making decisions for an individual that

I never fathomemed, right? Where it was real, right? Where things were happening as we were

having these conversations in El Salvador. Like news is coming out that this happened in this location, this is

going on here. Um, you know, and it was just fairly wild and

I transitioned from that. Yeah. And tapped into this fiery calling of

what's next is this protector warrior mentality, whatever you want to call it.

There was something that I still wasn't doing. And I went to Baghdad, Iraq with the State Department,

okay? and was working on high profile, high threat teams,

doing it the old classic way. At that time, it was a lot different. There was a lot less going on,

you know, so not like tooting my own horn, but like it was an experience and it was different. And then you're you're

doing those kinds of things and transitioning from like that young college graduate that got out of the

Marine Corps into Guatemala into a a marriage at the time that transitioned

me, right? And then to realizing that's what I think is so funny. It was a marriage that got you there. It wasn't like, yeah, my career trajectory like

that was my goal to have it be one intern. No, it was real life. Your wife

wanted to go there, therefore you're going to go there. And I

ultimately chose the calling. Yeah.

Conversations were had about it. Yeah. Uncomfort was shared.

Yeah. I chose Yeah. So,

it was that deeply seated that I was willing to go against my

upbringing. This you're in it for the long haul. Make it work at all costs.

And obviously there's two sides to every story, but I left and I did it. Yeah.

And then I went through that couple month pipeline of training process

and then transition into that year over there. And you know, it was it was really, really, really cool. It was

really fun. It was really unique. I met some amazing people. We did some really fun stuff. Um some unique missions, some

unique opportunity. Um, and then boom, it's like pushing you into that next

caliber of, right? Hey Nate, you're going to be the AIC for this,

right? Individual today. Yeah. And like, who else is with me? Well, it's just you and another car

and you're going here, you know, like greenside stuff where, you know, it's safer to some degree and

there's other teams rolling around the areas. But me,

yeah. And I'm like, wow, this is astronomical. This is responsibility, right?

This matters. I need to understand these routes. I need to understand how this system works. I need to understand how

communications are working over this platform, this system with these individuals, who's connected, and who's

doing what. And to look at this at the macro, not the micro, and to see scale,

and to see the moving parts and pieces that really put all of these worlds and

these things that we're doing together. And it wasn't enough.

It wasn't enough. I got bored. I I legitimately not surprised at all.

I got bored. I had way too much time to get heavily into things like cryptocurrency and Bitcoin,

you know, get put out on the streets in in a way financially for just dumb decisions and

have a really good time doing it, right? And then go, what's next? And I got it in Guatemala. I've been

interviewing with a couple organizations back in the states and had applications out for other things um

that still to this day I'm like man I wish I would have done that you know but I didn't. Yeah.

But I'd gone through a couple interviews and that same individual that we both

you know are aware of actually sent me a LinkedIn message that I still have and it's like hey I remember you

curious if you'd be interested in coming in building this covert protection detail. Yeah. And you know,

bless that guy. Yeah. For seeing something that I didn't really understand at the time.

Yeah. Cuz you know, you look into the into the future now and it's like I've been told

no so many times more. And now someone's selling to you on things that I feel like I could just

knock out of the park, right? Things that I know without a shadow of a doubt I'm going to be the best thing

that you ever considered or at least I want to be. And that's what I'm going to go into it as like wholeheartedly like give you everything

that I got. And he gave me an opportunity and I respect the fact that he did now

being in a position where you give people opportunities. Yes. And seeing something and so something

that he saw in me, you know, really resonated and I showed up to that program, you know, building

tables on my off day and, you know, our place of work that we were going to operate out of.

Yep. And then turning that into how do I get better? What schools do I go to? How do I train more? Been doing covert

protection for two and a half years. Two and a half years. Yeah, I think I think we did two and a half years

together. Did you find that it was the structure? You don't seem to be the

person that needs that structure. You know how many military guys just used to? It's like

when you're in the military military for too long, you have that lack of of that independent self-motivated. you you just

do it because it's it's what's expected of you. And then in Guatemala and Thailand, it sounds like you're the one

that's building the structure. And so you're self motivated in that way that then I feel like when you brought the

the to the co-pro team, um you were one of, you know, our our main team lead was

such a such a mentor. That's clearly what I remember him from him is extremely impactful. him believing in

you more than you either of us believed in ourselves. Um it's massive kudos and

just respect to him. But then you I just remember when you joined cuz I was on the team before you and then when you

joined and we were building furniture I remember um the structure that you

brought and I I think that's to your credit um

especially with ex-military I think that's something that sometimes gets um

it's a weakness and you've taken that and it's it's not a characteristic of yourself and and then how How do you

take this now covert team now states side now in Silicon Valley very very

different than what you're used to and very different of your your whole life for the last you know five years how's

that transition play out another reset

um I think something that gets very forgotten

is the ability to forget what was before. Yeah.

So moving into something different and new and taking it as it is. It's like I

love film and movies and shows and it's like kind of like a cinnaphile, but you

know, you watch one thing and it's one way and there's a lot of processes and

procedures that they do to go about those kinds of things and then you watch something else and you start thinking

about, holy crap, like how did they do that? That's so cool. Or like this scene is amazing and this happened and like

how do they go about those things? I looked at that team in a way of like this is new to me.

Building covert protection + team problem-solving

I understand the idea and the concept, but like what does covert protection

truly mean, right? And to me it meant a lot of things, but

it meant a new learning process on getting there together. Yeah. And how to do it. And the way they put

that team together, even before I got there, was you have individuals with

certain backgrounds. Yeah. individuals that have just gotten a start in doing this and like some of

your talk before on this and then you have your special

operations guys and then you have guys that you know why are you here? Yeah, we did have a few of those

like what what what are you doing and why are you here? Are you lost? And then that was a phase where I go

the only way that I can fathom even trying to do this in the best way possible is to learn as much as I can.

Yeah. And to talk and to challenge to listen and to absorb kind of like

the mentoring that would happen from different fields, different walks of life, different areas of approach, different mentalities, different

protection standards, different I've done this this way, how should we do this this way? And then you're shift

leading operations where I guess you figure it out along the way,

but you start to just trust the individuals that are doing it. Yeah. We're micromanaging and

microontrolling isn't possible because there's so much autonomy and position

and approach and location and transition. Yeah. Um, you know, through

how do you find a principal? Yeah. when they're gone. Yeah.

In the in the days of like not having any sort of location or tracking capabilities on an individual

and like in my mind, you know, all these other guys are talking about it. And I remember one

of the guys, he was a former combat controller, Oddball, right? Mhm. And you know, combat controlling is a

lot of calling for fire from, you know, big boys upstairs flying by and doing

things and seeing big picture and command and control and learning how to like position and bracket to cord and control and to like

shrink yep into getting what you want. And then we were like, you know, why don't we just

bracket? Let's try it. You go here, you go here, you get this door. Let's just fan out. And then we

started to learn things like um where staffing numbers come into play where you lose capability because you

don't have position or individuals to be able to fix the risk or to counter the

failure, right, of like missing a principle or like being off a move.

Yeah. And those kind of things all kind of came together. But I think for me what was

important was the team. Yeah. It was the people because without the

team and the people and the individuals with these autonomy to do these things were

putting it all together. They're making it work. Mhm. I would only like put information on a

screen in a PowerPoint and brief it before everybody goes out to do these things or to plan for it

and to preface it with, you know, good things that got implemented from individuals that came in afterwards.

We're like, hey, let's go over contingencies. Let's think about like in the event of what do I do? Yeah.

And we use that based off of, you know, like a principalbased approach. Yeah. or

understanding in astronomical detail who you're taking care of. Remember those

points where we're like sitting outside of a location, everybody is just wondering like what's

going to happen next cuz we have no information. We have no idea. You're literally conducting like

surveillance where your job is to know everything. Yeah. With nothing.

Yeah. And control an unknown environment. And you get so intimately

attached to like the tiniest of details like gate in a crowd

or walk and stride and attire and um time

of day and who's around who's doing what and how that transitions to what's next and

what's coming and having foresight and forethought to get there. Yeah. So, there's one moment where I I

can't remember who I was with, maybe it was you, some the other team, but

somebody just caught ankles. Yeah. Like, yes. Pane of glass is

frosted. And we've got about a window of this from about, you know, yards away and

somebody goes, "They're moving." Yep. And we got it. We got it. And it was just like this weird

Yes. Everybody sits back at the end of the day and you're like, "Yeah, we made it there. Yeah,

we got to this level." And then I think me usually I'm like, "Ah, it's not good enough. How do we get

better?" Exactly. Like how do we get better? We should have We should have found it minutes faster. Yeah. Why did we get it then when we

could have got it earlier? What did we not do? Did we not go inside and, you know,

play whatever character or just be in vicinity of information? Yeah.

To be able to like absorb and these things that I was learning in these other places in the world and like

people teaching me and these like big wick guys from all over the world that were doing things with me in like Guatemala and

Iraq and I was just thinking and trying to determine what makes it better. And then

you start to go into things like you talked about it's like behavioral analysis and like understanding psychology and

behavior and like like the streets are one thing. Yeah. Some people are never going to have

street smarts, right? It's just not going to go there, right? Some people which we know like can walk

around not even seeing anything that's happening around them and we're so focused on

the Matrix red dress. Yep. But now there's of them. Yep. And then how do you determine and

delineate like what's actually a risk, a threat, a possibility,

and do you choose the right one? And just based off of your visuals and body language. I remember when we'd get

to a point where the team ourselves didn't have to even use comms for

multiple movements because we knew exactly you're going there, I'm going here, I have eyes on. There was such a

fluid communication between our team. But then the same for our principal of

anticipating they're going to take a right-hand turn. Yeah. Oh, nervous. They something's up.

Something's up right now. They And they're just standing there at a bus stop. But a quick shuffle,

you know. Exactly. Close that gap. Something's up. Not uncut.

Just the way she'd hold her purse or whatever it was. All non-verbal. All the way that f

humans are just fascinating in how we're created of just the intricacies. Yeah.

Of these of these minute communications that we give off and or

knowing, hey, my partner's having a bad day today. Nate's Nate had, you know, Indian food

last night and he's not doing okay. So then knowing of like, okay, I'm not going to count on Nate right now. But

then as soon as I see Nate, yep, he's got my back. Nate's behind me. No, Nate's around that corner. that corner is already cleared for me. So now I

don't have to worry. I remember that just being huge with with our team and the the synergy

that we operated at. It was it was fun. It was so special

because even in those moments for you and me and everybody else learning that

Yeah. again new approach, right? We were figuring it out together. Like

there was other individuals in in in the community in, you know, security doing covert

protection in different ways. In different ways, right? But they weren't doing it there and they weren't doing it the way we were.

But they were, but they weren't. It's just it's so nuanced to think that even this

goes back to like industry level standards and things like that. And give me another years and maybe we'll

get there. But like what I can speak on is the fact that

give me models. Yeah. Give me bodies.

Give me variables and let me explain why what we have might not work right.

Where there's holes, where there's flaws, where there's opportunity to get better, where it might just not be enough. So to

standardize is also to just limit possibility and approach and like circumventing the things that we're here

for. Um and that team was just so eye opening with all of those unique individuals and

the directions they've gone since and what we were trying to accomplish and do and you know even like the leadership

learning lessons and process in between. How how was that? I mean given that you'd had so much leadership experience

from the Marines from these other details, how is that from a leader perspective of even just me sharing some

of my experiences? How do you

because I was even, you know, watching back the the last episode of okay, well, if I was a manager during that time,

would I have done anything different? would I have you and I have talked about this in the

past of you just never knew you never knew what was happening um rightfully so um but then if I had told you as my

manager I don't I don't really know if it would change anything

I don't think it could it was still the job that was required from us but then

um um yeah cuz we're talking about your story, right? Yeah. If we take now my story of

like, hey, you have girls on the team that are that are becoming victims. Honestly,

that's that's what it is. There's no way to sugar coat it. And what? You're going to take us off the

op? You're going to now put us in the car so we're always the car person, you know, like. And you have to make some of those

decisions. But I think what we're getting at is, you

know, something that also I'm reflecting on is that was a time too when I was in a position where,

you know, like kind of we've discussed before where you're you're building schedules or you're

moving pieces around. You're playing the chess game on like how to how to move today and how to tackle today and how to

make the right adjustment and change in order to well get to the ultimate win, however you define that.

Yeah. For me, what that was was

in the moment and you kind of just learn to put so much trust

Yeah. into people. Yeah. and slip past what a lot of people

I think do is like what if

regarding who they are as an individual a person is human with whatever background experience but not even that

like what level of support that they have and there was times that you were in the field by yourself.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And looking back on that, I'm like, I don't know if that was

a complete leadership flaw and failure by everybody involved.

Yeah. Or that was like a trial by fire, stand the test of time,

see how it works out, right? But what you shared last time which you know it sits pretty heavy

because you you were describing those times where everybody gave you information. We

talked you talked to you know other senior individuals on the team and your teammates and your support mechanisms

and the systems and the gear and the tech and the medical and we thought we had it

covered. Right. But then Melinda is out on her own far separated

from support. Yeah. Because again, model bodies, staffing

approach, right? Pieces have been taken off the board for whatever reason or we just don't have it

or we can go down that rabbit hole. But like the approval process, Yep. of

what this means and what we're talking about into a larger,

you know, client stakeholder conversation of here's what right looks like and here's why. And I'm not saying

that because it's right the way that you're going to see right or the right that I see right. But I have data points

and and and times and repetition where there's things that can go wrong. And

are we more focused on putting a band-aid on this or are we stopping the hemorrhage?

Exactly. Or are we just preventing it before it happens? Right. And you were put in positions where, you

know, we can look back and I can look back and be like, it's probably not the right decision to to do that. Yeah. And then that impacts you now,

right? Which directly reflects on us or me or

the team or just circumstance. But in our world, those things happen and

you're put in those positions and we're supposed to all be ready for it. But also, there's the human impact and consequences.

Right. Right. And I I think that's leadership and because first off, my story, it just

builds character. So, you know, end of the story, everything worked out good. The lesson and the value is on mine.

Exactly. Thankfully. And then thankfully, we're still here. Um, but I I think that's such a good point and that a lot

of executive protection teams need to grow is that leadership and that

ownership of and I'm experiencing this now just even as as being a manager how

if my employees are going through something at what point is it the ownership of you just didn't know the

context you didn't you didn't know what the right choice was. So then that's a leadership flaw. I need to make sure you

have a a contingency plan for X, Y, and Z. If this happens, if if you lose a

client, if the client has medical, you know, whatever it is. Then is it they're

just having a bad day? Is it just, you know, a random accident? Or is it a leadership? Ooh, I should have

anticipated that need or I should have made a different call and then you having to take that

ownership of of that was my bad. Yeah. Yeah. And and how is that not in context to

our team but for now the other teams that you're managing and and now in your role um now how do you deal with that

pressure but then that confidence or that um that leadership stance on if if

my employees are failing that's cuz I'm failing in a sense cuz I I think that's

where a lot of resentment happens of and we've been on teams where you know other

teams where um your leadership does not care at all and it's reflected and it

and it shows up in so many ways. But then even just

these these um testimonies of of people of what they think about you, you are

someone that leads from the front. And so, how have you found that and your team environments

being so much more stronger because of you actually caring, you actually investing and being intentional with

your employees? I don't think I'm stronger by any means.

I think I'm just playing the chess game a little bit differently. Yeah.

It's like I sit back and I study or I train or I learn or get better at

leadership like you know the year-long program with Harvard or looking into other some some other

things now on like what's that next step but with a lot of those things too comes the

astronomical issues of what responsibility looks like.

Do you feel that pressure? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have to take responsibility for things you disagree with. You have to take responsibility

for things you absolutely agree with. You take responsibility for your actions, others actions. But what I feel like

leadership is for me is an insulator. Like I should be taking care of people in a way where if I'm not giving them

enough or if I'm not giving them an enough leeway or enough autonomy

to do the right things, I'm responsible. Yeah. If I'm giving them everything that

I got and they're understanding it in a way that is not the way that I thought

they should be understanding it, there's something missing there. Yeah. And that just kind of goes back to like

a lot of business principles and things and like you know

keywords or slogans like dynamic teaming and inclusion and all these other things you learn

studying, but what does that truly mean in our industry? And I think it just brings back to that thing of like you

need to just find the holes. You need to find the holes and you need to find the flaws and you need to do root cause analysis to be able to get there.

And so when things fall apart, there's a reason and justification for it. There's a used to always say like have a have an

answer to everything. Yeah. If at any specific moment you should be able to explain the why.

Yep. At Yep. scale. Yep. Like through

scrutiny. Mhm. getting to whatever end result or investigation or whatever piece like you

should have already had the foresight to be there. And so at the team level, you know, when

people are failing, I guess I've always taken too much care and responsibility for it. On that

old team, there was things that happened that, you know, I took it on the chin. And

I'll tell you all day long, every single day, it's because of a root cause analysis

that I don't feel like I was a part of, but I was in the leader a position.

Yeah. To where I had to hold responsibility for it regardless. Regardless.

And so I think the communication piece on teams is huge. Yeah. like sitting down and discussing

of like when I'm in my position thinking of these things, here's what I'm thinking about. When I put you out to do

these things on your own and to take charge and to get to this level and you don't reach back and ask

questions, you're failing both of us. Yeah. If I don't give you enough information to then assign you to do

that and expect you to get to a result that maybe you're not going to get to because

it's my fault in putting you there in the first place or not giving enough information. Maybe that's me being going, you know,

hands up, have at it. Like let's see what you got. Yeah. But I feel everything needs to be

strategic. Everything needs to be calculated and everything needs to be designed in a way where it's set up for

success. And chess is always a master analogy. Poker even. Yeah.

Yeah. It's gambling, but so is our career and our jobs and everything that we're doing on a daily basis. You make the best call

with the players at the table or what's on the board. But you should know how to play the game. You should understand the

statistics involved. You should understand how what piece being moved where then translates moves ahead and

to play your best game. Yeah. But people, teams, caring for

them, trusting them, and trying to just build a unit. Yeah.

Is how we are successful. We can't do it on our own. Oh. And people fail all the time thinking

they can or they're the best thing since Yes. You know. Yes. Taking it back to my grandpa sliced

bread. Yeah. Right. And they're out there and the egos are out there and we've all had egos about

different stuff. But I truly genuinely care about like building things in a way

to where it's tailor made and designed to be successful for the people that you have on hand, the situation you have on

hand, the forecastable things that you can calculate for um and planning and

putting it all together how however possible and have options.

Bitterness, accountability, and staying sharp

Yeah. How do you fight against

resentment or bitterness with either in a leadership role or just in your own

career trajectory? I know this is a this is a question that actually this is one of my first

questions I wanted to ask you because um you know my episode was like oh I

love everyone. Oh, let me tell you these fun stories. And I feel like this episode we're getting so much more into

the nitty-gritty of of the weeds of what

is the behind the scenes and the real life, why people choose this

career, what happens when you're in the career. But then there unfortunately,

just like every other single job, there's a lot of backstabbing. There's

there's a really ugly side to this industry. There's a lot of rumor mills.

There's a lot of um we're so quick to tell someone of

another person's faults because to to one side of it is that your team

needs to know. If there's a history with this individual with alcohol with, you know, inappropriate

relations with a client or anything, then that needs to be, you know, protection,

save the team from some heartache. Um, but how have you been able to navigate in this industry with

some of the highs and lows? So, we both experience I mean, I mean, anyone in this industry has actually experienced this. Um, you're not an EP agent unless

you've gotten fired. You're not a EP agent unless you've royally messed up at some I mean the this the risk and the

pressure is too high to not. So absolutely how do you take that um not regret but

of I think it's very easy to choose bitterness in this industry.

So how do you not choose that?

I don't think sometimes you have a choice. Yeah, that's what I was hoping you'd say.

I'm not, you know, yeah, ever going to run for any sort of office

or do I feel like that would ever be a possibility kind of a thing where we need to kind of skirt around the edges

on this? I think you will always always always always always

harbor something. Mhm. You'll have your short list of people and places and situations and

actions and reactions and decisions and knows and whatifs that will

torment you both personally and professionally especially the professional

transitioning into the personal and then how that just affects everybody. Yeah. And it's affected all of us. I've got

mine. Yeah. Yeah. you know, we've experienced some of those together. Yeah. Um

I've experienced some recently on multiple occasions.

And I think to be honest, I've gone about some in the right way

and I've gotten about some in the emotional,

stressfilled, egotistical way. Yeah. All are lessons.

every last one of them. And I think that trying to be introspective and and and

reflect on like your own actions and that extreme accountability and ownership is

I've always held people to standards that maybe they're never going to meet. Yeah. But there's standards I may never meet

or you may not match up to somebody else. Yes. Or it's just the wrong place, wrong

time, wrong decision and and that's just not the next phase for you. But what I do know is they're lessons and if you

don't learn from them then you're wrong. If you're not using that as fuel for the

next phase, the next decision, the next action, the next interaction or also

what gets lost on a lot of people I believe is they're not paying attention to everybody else's issues or failures

or successes and wins. Platforming them and being like amazing.

Explain to me how you went about that. We're like, I see you. I hear you. I

don't understand why you did what you did. However, you're your own person and individual.

And I'm probably never going to because I'm going to have my own filter and way of processing this, but let me just sit

back and kind of like have I not even empathy, just

an articulate, intellectual internal dialogue on

what all the variables were. Yeah. Because we work in variables, we work in unknowns, we work in known,

and all we try to do is play the best game when we're sitting at the table. Yep.

And we're on the OP or we're on the trip or we're on the movement. It's rinse,

wash, repeat. Every single one's different. And sometimes they transition and phase through so many different actions and interactions that,

you know, Yeah. Right. And so I guess just accepting the fact that like

it's going to happen and you're going to have issues and you're going to have problems

and this industry is small, fickle, indecisive, and just a meat grinder.

It is. It really is. Have you Have you had mentors along the way that have that

have been helpful? I mean, obviously our our old team lead. Has there has there been other people that you've relied on

for, hey, I'm in a situation. What do I do? Yeah. I mean,

all the time. Actually, a really good friend of mine now, um, that I was working. So when we transitioned from

the co pro team, um I went and did a stent and did a little bit of corporate side as a detail

lead helping renavate and orchestrate like an RST team and some EP and

you know putting my mind and knowledge to it and then what came about was the opportunity to move forward and I got

that itch and something just red flagged and I go, "Oh, I want to be a part of that." Yeah. What is that?

Yeah. Um, that was a phase where we talked and then I eventually got jumped into technically an EP manager role for

a new covert protection detail that went through an astronomical flux and change and transition

and that was a big piece for me where you know and an individual that we both know very well I got to learn a lot

from. Yeah. Um but I got to add a lot to that as well. um to the sense of,

you know, if you don't absorb what's around you and what's transpired and what's existed and how we got to where

we're at, you're never going to be able to get to the next phase, especially when you're on your own. Yeah.

And I found myself on my own. Yeah. Taking over a position that I reluctantly not ne I didn't necessarily

want. Yeah. But I didn't want anybody else to come in and take it. I didn't want anybody

else to remove the control of the people that I cared the most about and trying to just remove what happened on our old

team where I wasn't able to shape the narrative to take care of the

people that are taking care of me and the people that were around and doing

that process with me were astronomical in and mentoring me and the discussions

that I had with you know the role that I took over you know directing a family

office at scale and scope and huge team size

with a lot of moving parts on the road all the time with a principle that I

astronomically respect and appreciate but could never understand. Yeah. Yeah.

And I did the best that I could with what I got. And I remember actually entering a conversation with that

specific individual explaining to them where I said I may not be the guy. I may not be the

best fit. I may not make this the best it can be in more or

less words, but I will give it everything that I got. Yeah.

And then you learn from that too. And where that kind of based off that reaction. Yeah. Where that fell apart and where it

went and like what you could have done differently. Yeah. Um and so those leaders involved with that team, the leaders that

were high-fiving me down the middle Yeah. together. Um, there was a part of

that team too. Talk about, you know, bitterness, resentment, where I came in thinking that I was supposed to be

something that I wasn't at the time and waiting for it to happen. Yeah. And the other guy that was doing it with

me, I eventually sat down with him and basically said, "Hey, like, I don't like you.

I just I I don't know what it is, but I adore you both, so I'm shocked to hear

that one. I don't like you. However,

we have to do this together. Yeah. Exactly. We need to make this work. Yeah.

And on that very reasoning and foundation that we're on this team together and our success is driven off

this was that does not shy away from conflict. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I do sometimes.

How did he respond to that? Really well. Yeah. That one conversation really responding

really well to that into Yeah. Oh, I mean he didn't take it greatly. No, I mean

that's one of those guys that's the yin to my yang. Like they're the opposite attract. Yes. And then we eventually figured out how

to to grind all the way to the end

together really well together. Yeah. I making it work. Yeah. And then again building a unit,

building a team, building operational procedures and policies and implementation

of big logistical scale. And what a lot of

people don't appreciate and internationally as well. You're not in Silicon Valley in a in a you know fairly controlled environment. Now

you're internationally doing all these operations. And what gets left to the wayside is

I'll limit what I'm going to say here, but there's a group of thought and

individuals and people that are in positions that have so many resources and tools at their disposal.

They can make a decision and then there's other people that are going to ensure the success of that decision.

We were in a position where it was on us, by us, for us

and everything came back to us. We were a siloed team at a big scale

working on our own to make it work and really reporting directly to the

principal. However, in the family office, but being controlled and

yeah, seen over. Yeah. by a vendor corporation that we were

working for amongst big transitions, you know, and it goes all the way back full circle to

being, you know, a minister's kid seeing who's in this for what. It becomes very

political, bureaucratic, and you start to realize that there's so many players at the table and everybody has a different

end goal. Yeah. And our end goal was mission success, team cohesion.

Yeah. Um operational continuity, consistency, effectiveness, aggressiveness,

and an astronomical capability to pull unicorns out of a hat. Mhm. And materialize something out of

nothing. Exactly. And we did it. Yeah. And you did it. And we did it. And it got recognized by it. And if any of those individuals are

hearing this, I hope they just remember some of those moments where behind the scenes there's so much happening.

There's so much happening and so many things that you don't talk about. You don't highlight. You don't,

you know, put a flag out and go, "Hey, this happened. We want to highlight the fact that,

you know, we were great today, but transition into now,

you know, helping run protective operations

and try to grow business and to do business and to be a part of the business side of the house. being a

very heavily on the ground operational guy with the

education, training, knowledge, and experience to be able to understand it from a nuance level.

And we're just trying to recreate all of the successes without the failure. We're

trying to change how we're going about things similar to, you know,

other people in the industry that are going to do it really well. They're going to be successful because they're thinking about it holistically and in a

way that's it's not reinventing the wheel. It's just perfecting the wheel

and challenging standards. Yes. Yes. Cuz let's play chess. Absolutely.

I'll show you a move you probably didn't think of. Why? Cuz you've been there for years and

that's how you did it. But it's not necessarily the right answer here. Yep. But there's a lot there to learn from as

well. Yeah. And so I don't know. Yeah. years from now, I don't know where

I'll be, what I'll be doing, but I know I'll still be a sponge. And I know I'll still trying to be

cutting that red tape. Cutting that red tape. Creating programming. Yeah.

Facilitating and just trying to do it better all the time and to do it very specifically. And

that's where that like concier Yes. You know, mentality of excellence.

High touch. Yep. Tailor made. Yep. I love that. Okay. Well, the final topic that I would

Relationships + communication at home

love to touch on is uh a little more on the personal side and

got to save the best for last. Let me clear the throat. Clear the throat. you are engaged to someone who is is

very one beautiful to very special. She is um and a

I have known you for a long time and I have loved to follow your journey

on the personal side and we've we've had a lot of conversations about our families, our

um a lot of our our lives is paralleled to each other from from childhood. And

then I remember the first time going out to breakfast with you, first time

hearing about your fiance, and I remember immediately knowing,

oh, this girl's something because I remember you distinctly

saying, "I told her everything. I told her everything and she listens and she

steps into this and she wants she gets it. She gets EP and I

to always credit. Oh, I I well now especially. I mean, you were very new to dating, but I remember one

just I know how reserved you are and I know how reserved you have to be with this job, especially in new

relationships mixed with I'd never seen you so

supported by a female that stepped into your world and just fully adapted to her

credit. I mean, in the heat of it, in the heat of it and and I'm sure now, you know, years later, that

no one loves the long nights. No one loves the I'm flying to somewhere tomorrow morning. Sorry. Oh, it's also

Christmas. Also, it's our anniversary. But how has that been on Daily Mail and TMZ and like, oh yeah,

exactly. Who were you with? What was happening? Exactly. You've got some really great

photos on TMZ. I remember. Oh my gosh. you you the audience wants to look up

some fun photos. There's some there's some good capture. There's some really good action shots.

But that is such a great point of you're with you're with principles that

it's almost diplomatic and government's like great go with go with those ones. But when you've got celebrities, you've

got very pretty models around you. You've got very very beautiful humans around you. um mixed with with the long

hours, the stress. You are this self-driven individual. So, how is it

having a partner that adapts and and sacrifices a lot for you,

but then how do you in return support her? And how are you able to

to make her also feel like I I know there's a lot of questions back on back but of of having that connection.

Yeah, I'm absorbing this because I I think it deserves the voice

and it deserves the respect because you and I both know many many men who did not have supportive

partners. you and I know many men that um that is all we hear on shift is the

complaints. We hear the nagging. We hear the gosh, I got to tell her. Um and so

the fact that your wonderful fiance is not known for that I think is one

respectful. You're very respectful of her and her her reputation, but also it and privacy too.

And privacy. Absolutely. Um, wow.

Yeah. Again, in the thick of it. Yeah. Um, there was no other way around the

dating, you know, it's rough courting. It's rough

old man term phase of like trying to trying to be intentional.

I guess trying to do it again but better. Mhm. And I wasn't necessarily ready for

it, but it kind of just slapped me in the face and, you know, hit me in a way where I was like, again,

yeah, if I'm not learning from my own mistakes and lessons,

what am I doing? You know, I'm just running around thinking that I'm the greatest thing and

just all the best decisions and it's definitely not the individual sitting on

this side of the table over here. you know, I've made my mistakes and and done things and, you know, miscommunicated

and not gone about things in the right way in the past. And I just kind of realized that

the only way to understand this world is full transparency. Yeah.

Yeah. and you know being engaged and getting

married and about to be a husband here in in March is to a lawyer

you know like professional arguer yeah it needs to it needs to be very

calculated and articulated well and I just started sharing everything with her you know when you know you're supposed

to jump on a phone call and it's a late night and you know your principal is out with

friends and then that transitions into a red carpet event and then to a

nightclub and then to uh sun's up

getting back in the morning and you just need you're only going to get an hour and a half of sleep before you got to get back

up set up for the next day and make sure everybody's successful and play chess on a lack of sleep

exhausted and explaining that process. Yeah. um

in detail but not too much, right? Um a lot of after the fact. And then

there's moments too where I think that you really need to be cognizant of what you're explaining and what you're

sharing and what the impact of that's going to be in the same you know

way that you go about really everything with teams and management and leadership and you know talking to higherups and

everything in between. And it's just the importance of information you share is really critical. And I used to share the

important information where understanding like I guess the female spectrum a little bit and what might be

important in that moment. And I go this is the case and here's what's happening and here's where I'm going to be and

here's kind of what's going to transpire. I don't know. I can't describe and I

can't share but I will keep you informed. Yeah. At least when it matters. And then I

started to get this just like gridlock moments of I explained and I

communicated and then I was just allowed to function and work and focus.

Yeah. And then that goes, oh, this is a good exchange. Yeah. This is fantastic. Right.

But there's times you're never really going to get it right. I mean, the last minute trips that pop up and you just got to go.

Yeah. And you got to cancel plans and you got to Yeah. change reservations or we have this, you

know, wedding planning meeting that's coming up and ah right I'm not going to make make it maybe. And

they're like for what though? And you say uh it's for this and they're ah it's not good enough. Yeah.

You go correct. Right. Not good enough. I got to go to Omaha, Nebraska. But can't somebody else do it?

Yes. But it just it just kind of like you know Yeah. snowballs. Yeah.

And to hopefully like a functional way of going about things and then also,

you know, being transparent about, you know, the momentary frustrations and

trauma and situations and articulating why you were thinking things a certain way or, you know, why

you shut the door. Yeah. to have that conversation, you know, or

why you needed to go to the Starbucks down the street while you're at home to take that call.

And I think all of it just goes back to just the communication piece of just sharing.

Yeah. And just trying to make them a part of it so they understand and they feel like I get it. And then you know sometimes

the wives and the girlfriends they meet and they interlin and you know even

sharing you know you're I don't have female friends. Yeah. I really don't. Yeah.

So when you do for me it's always been you know workrelated. Yes. and then explaining those types of

relationships and being transparent about it and then you know discussing like what that meant

at the time and like where it's transpired you know like with this very situation of like why

we're sitting down and having this conversation. It's that extreme professionalism of where

we've been and where we're getting and where we're going and then now you're trying to bring new people in and keep your circle small and who you add to

that is astronomical and I'm blessed, grateful, I'm excited. Yeah. Um, and I have an amazing partner that I

definitely do not deserve that is going to definitely help me be successful over the next

Yeah. years and be a huge part of it. And they already have

like she's been astronomical and the transition pieces, the frustration,

the you what are we doing? I remember, you know, coming to Rescore Group, I was in

that transition from that big scale team and kind of the dissipation of it, which happened both naturally and for a

lot of reasons. We can just go down that rabbit hole all day, but we won't. And there was a gap of time where it's

like, what do you do? and you're reaching out and you're networking and you're trying to do all these things and you're trying to

leverage whatever relationships to get a a talk or a call or a conversation or

somebody just to look at what you know what you just know in your soul is

supposed to jump off the page and it just doesn't. And then like that process of

we're doing it what's happening. Yeah. And then that personal ownership is being,

you know, a partner and where we need to go together. And we were also in a time

too where, you know, in that last program I moved back up to Washington. I bought a house. It's still for sale.

We're down here now. You know, like real transparency. There's both rent and a mortgage and

you're trying to find the balance in between. Yeah. It's real life. There's those pressures and then you're like,

I got to take off for two weeks and you know Yeah. go here to Europe for a bit and

they're like, "Isn't there a full-time program and team?" And you go, "No,

it's not about that. I need to go." And like, "Why do you need to go?" Like,

"It's new. We're building." Yeah. We're growing. It's important. I want to

show up because I want to add everything that I think that I can add there and get on the ground.

Yeah. operate and be a ground guy and use the data and information that

I'm gathering and figuring out from the experience and the repetition and time in between to then

hopefully set the team up for success and let them run with it. And I think it's really important and then you get the

especially when it's a startup. Yeah. Aren't you, you know, aren't you salaried, right? You don't have to do that. And I go, I

know, but I need to. Yes. Exactly. And then when they get that, it's like, wow. It's cool. And it's it I'm grateful. I'm

very grateful for sure. Yeah. Has it been helpful for her to her to meet other EP girlfriends and spouses, do you think?

Yeah. I mean, to some degree, unless you're like I mean, there's some crazy ones. So, I I

keep her away from those ones, but I do. It's far Sometimes it's far and few between. Um

she's definitely gotten attached to a lot of like people that I care about, my old team. Mhm. Um guys that I've worked with, worked

for, worked with me, you know, that are going to be coming to the wedding. Um but a lot of those relationships for

both past, present. There's been a lot of years and stuff in between. And

she's as connected as I think you could get over the last, you know, four years. For sure.

No, that's to your credit. Well done. I I I love to be able to highlight that

because uh I don't think any part of that should be taken for granted. It's a

lot of intentionality. That's a lot of calculated

Yeah. steps. Certain people call, she lets me pick up the phone every single time. Other people call and she goes, "That

one can wait." Yep. Yep. We all need someone in our life to do that.

Yeah. It comes I think when you least expect it, too. Yes. But you know, next phase is

hopefully getting better, growing. Absolutely. Maturing. Absolutely. Yeah. How do you how do you

see the next five years going? Oh god. You never really know.

Yeah. You never really know. Yeah. I think postco where the industry is at right now, it's a it's an

interesting time. There's a generational shift, too, I feel like, of EP leadership and

and a newer, younger side of EP that's already here. They're already running the industry

professional. Yeah. foot view up, maybe even I think

they're definitely is a transition that's happening right now where the younger generation is slowly

becoming more influential and taking over and trying to implement and create change. I think,

you know, you could speak to this, I can, others can. Um, you know, everybody really probably involved in this podcast

process today, but bringing back that very hightouch

concier's level attention to clients and attention to principles and attention to the details

where it's a partnership versus a transaction. Yes. and trying to build, grow, implement, develop, and change

everything in between where, you know, I love the tailor made suit analogy, but it is it's like,

you know, there's a Nordstrom and there's these other locations where you can go pick something out and they'll tweak a few things.

Well, in our industry, they're out there. Yep. and they'll do that for new clients and stuff because it's a business and

you're focused at like scaling and revenue generation and all of everything in between.

To not go into the weeds though, the next phase is what you go to when

you're those types of individuals where you say, "Hey, I want exactly this. I want it to be

this way." And then you have providers, you have individuals, or you have vendors that understand the nuances of

what that means and they're not trying to slap a packet of standards and this is what

Building the future: business, “custom fit,” and scaling

it's supposed to look like, but you're adapting and you're growing and you're trying to make a custom fit

custom fit or the perfect dish with the ingredients that you're given. And sometimes those

are dictated to you. Sometimes those are given to you and you have to just take this amount of stuff and try to make the

thing that you know requires actually more but we're going to try to make it this way. And then having the experience

and knowledge and understanding again holistically across the board from

all of these perspectives and being a sponge and training and learning and keeping growing, keeping in the growth

process to then hear them and listen

and then maybe start small and then scale. But build data and build whatever

you need to to then make it make sense. Work harder. Yeah. Sometimes for less.

Yeah. And give them more. Yep. And then just try to build a relationship and partnership. And it's

kind of the same concept as the communication thing with my fiance. It's like understanding like, oh, you

really like the fact that we're doing this and we're exchanging and we're sharing in this way. Well, let me explain to you why this

bill is increasing. Yeah. or what we want to do with the team or like why training is important or

why, you know, we should add some more staff to do these things. Yep. Or maybe we can just capitalize on who

we have. Yes. And let's just put more in their bucket or their hat, give them more responsibility. It's

going to help them grow. Mhm. But it's also going to be a value ad,

like great return on investment. Yeah. If we can start doing this and then scale to doing this and then it's all

still the same. and we just add more people to do it. Yeah. And then now you can go, "Oh, let's change this and tweak this." And I go,

"That's perfect." Yeah. Yeah. We'll send so and so. We can do that. Yeah.

And so what I really want to do and what I really want to get to is to just build

and I really enjoy the building process. Yeah. And it's been a slow process for me, but I think like I'm just now at the phase

where I'm starting to learn to step away a little bit more. Yeah. and to relinquish some control and allow

it to happen without me. Yes. Um but then understand like where you're best serving and being a servant in the

service industry. Yep. to be a conduit for both the team, for both the business, for both the

client, the principal, stakeholders, everything in between and just trying to like I guess make it different and new

because of all of the experience that I've had and seeing what we have seen and you know,

all of it. It just creates that bitterness where you feel

like that's now becoming this big giant thick red tape.

Yeah. and you're now with a razor blade slowly trying to take one layer at a time, figure out how to get through it

and then it just keeps building behind you. Feel like that's where I'm at right now where I'm just trying to learn to get

better to learn more, get better at the business, get better at the implementation, get better at the discussion, get better at the

articulation piece and just trying to be like eloquent. Yeah. In my craft,

right? To hopefully help. It's like you've got the the tools in your tool box, but they

need to be sharpened, they need to be cleaned, they need to be greased, they need to be polished, they need all of that, and you just keep adding adding on

to that. Yeah. But sometimes some people don't buy new knives. Sometimes you can just maybe switch it

up and like get get a new set and start over. Okay. You know what I mean? They came out with

a new brand or a new model. Let's go with that. There we go. Because the last one's not working. There we go. and understanding that it's

okay to like I guess everything up on on its head. Exactly. Absolutely.

Closing + passing the mic forward

Shake the change out of the pockets and be like let's start fresh. Yeah. So, well, Nate, I love to hear this story.

Thank you for taking the time and to to share a lot of wisdom, a lot of good

stuff that I think the listeners are really going to benefit from. I think it's going to resonate with a lot of people and I'm really excited for this

next episode. Yeah, me too. I hope this can become a thing. Yeah. Where

you know there's a transition. You were here before and now I'm here and I'll be

there next time. You'll be the interviewer. And I think what that's going to do is hopefully just

pay it forward. Yep. Maybe get some interesting individuals in here to share some stories that get interesting individuals to share some

stories and I guess shed some light on a lot of stuff that's just kind of like left by the wayside or just not

that I think deserves attention. Yeah. is is exactly um Allan's really

good at that of of see we're letting this go. What why are we not putting value to this? And I appreciate his

boldness in in setting this up because I'm excited to hear the feedback of of

people hearing your story. Um just even hearing feedback from on sharing my story was very different than what I

expected, but encouraging for me and that reminder that nothing is wasted and that your story really matters and it's

your story. It's not my story. It's your story that is handpicked for you and and

a lot of people's stories mixed in too. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Touched on a few people. If you

know who you are, then uh you get the credit for for some of these mentors for sure. But I uh I appreciate you.

Appreciate you a lot. And I'm excited to see this next episode. Yeah. Hopefully we don't uh burn to the

ground in the process. All right. Thanks, Nate. Absolutely.