You're listening to Lessons in the Field. Our guest today is someone who's walked the tight rope of executive protection across 15 countries, protecting everyone from high- net worth individuals to Fortune 5 executives and international diplomatic delegations. With over nine years of boots on the ground experience, she's managed everything from covert security operations and red carpet events to high threat detail in global conflict zones. She's provided residential protection for high-end clients, including time spent working side by side with VCPG's founder, Alan Perry, where their professional partnership has evolved into a lasting friendship over time. From corporate campuses in the tech world to private aviation operations on the global stage, she brings a rare blend of precision, discretion, and adaptability.

She doesn't just protect, she leads. Welcome to the show, Malinda Gilbert. 

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, it's going to be a good. This is going to be a good conversation. Yeah, really looking forward to this. 

So, can you tell us a little bit about where you grew up and what your early interests were?

Yeah, I I grew up in the Pacific Northwest. So, right underneath Canada, right near Idaho in the Washington State. And I'm the youngest of four. So, um there was a really big age gap between me and my siblings. I have um my oldest brother who's 16 years older, another brother who's 14 years older, and then a sister who's 12 years older.

Wow. 

So, I I grew up being the baby of the family, but also I basically had five parents because they were so much older than me. Um, but I just tell them they all needed that many years a head start because as soon as I came along, I came out just, you know, us and the family around and yeah, and came came the the excitement came to the family. So, it made it it made it fun. Um, but yeah, no, I I was a ballerina for a long time.

Oh, wow. 

And I did it for 9 years. And I was homeschooled. So I had the opportunity to um teach during the day when a lot of, you know, kids were in school. And yeah, ballet was a big part of my life growing up.

And then, um, my parents always had something. They were always traveling. They were always doing. My dad is like a serial salesman. He's all He loves a good gimmick.

Loves something to sell people from squeegees to car wax to carpet, whatever it is. So, we would go to these trade shows growing up and um and it and especially having older siblings. They were all teenagers when I was growing up. So, the house was very busy. I loved I loved a good full house and um it was always excitement happening.

So, so I guess so what made you go from Ballerina? Yeah. 

What made you want to come into the security industry?

I I was very quickly influenced by my brother Caleb who got into the industry when he was 19 and um there's quite a few interviews out there on on how he got started in the industry and he got into it for very different reasons that I did. Um it was kind of a a joke growing up that women in our hometown have babies and they make pies. like that's just the expectation on you and I was okay with that. Um, but I would have stories of Caleb coming home for Christmas or you know he was he did Hollywood in the early 2000s. Okay.

And so he would come home with just the craziest stories and um I remember he he'd send mom and dad like, "Hey, check out this TMZ video. Like here I am with Tom Cruz and you know I'm 14 years younger than him." And so I'm very impressionable just like my gosh this is so cool. And um he has a lot of like MacGyver type stories where you know his and you know I'm ratting him out on some of his stories but okay he can't say them but I can share them you know uh uh creatively. Um, but he does stories of just um a client that you needed to go do a photo op maybe with a a presidential candidate and some promotional something and they needed they needed to have black shoes for the event and the client had Converse on. And so he looked at Caleb and was like, "What do I do?" Like we I didn't I didn't read the memo that I had to have black shoes.

And Caleb's like, "I got a Sharpie and I got black duct tape." Mhm. And so he's telling me these stories afterwards and and I'm just like this is the coolest job ever. Like not necessarily I'm I'm protection was the focus for me, but it was like you were having such crazy wild life experiences, right?

This is so cool. Yeah. Um he traveled all over the world with a lot of different clients and he was very intentional about I mean very good very good big brother um to send me a postcard from every country or um he would just share share these stories of hey I was in Indonesia during you know whatever big life event and it just it was this far away land and life that he lived and then he'd just come home to our little hometown And you know we have all these stories and so I I was very quickly um I idolized him a lot. Um I are growing up someone around me was always having an emergency and I have to laugh now because a big part of what I do now I was prepped at a very young age to do. It's fun to see how literally no experience is wasted because growing up um ever since I was 5 years old, people around me, whether it was my parents, whether it was other family members were having emergencies.

So, it wasn't my emergency, but it was enough to fully feel the effect of um that tragedy or of that um just the heaviness. And so, I very quickly became independent. I very quickly became um kind of self-sufficient in okay mom and dad are busy for years on end and so Caleb became just my my role model for a lot of things and then my sister they both kind of raised me um up into my teenage years. So so those emergencies kind of like shaped you into who you've very much so of of I'm not in control right but I have to just put up with the outcome of these emergencies happening. I mean I was six and then it happened when I was 12 and then um you know there certain people were just unstable or not there in my life and so I just became okay what you know my my room my childhood was great like my mom and dad love me I have a fantastic family but there was a lot of moments in my childhood that was just alone right and books were fantastic I read these you know Huckleberry Finn and uh this was family Robinson and all these adventures of like people around the world and that as my escape.

Um, but then learning how to comfort people in like I don't I don't know what to do. I can't I'm I'm kid. I can't help you in this situation, but I can be funny. I can, you know, show you this cool thing that I colored and hopefully it makes you feel better type of thing. Yeah.

Um and so so that kind of then translated later in life to when um I I came actually down here um when I was 14 and I remember I came here to see Caleb and his wife and we we had a great great time just just the first time in California. So seeing, you know, all the very big differences of here than than Washington life. And I remember there got to a point where I I think I was 14 13 14 and I remember sitting down and and telling him like I don't think I want a boring life. Like I don't I don't quite know like if I want to do school, if I want to do college, but I do know that I at some point I want to do what you do. And he was like, "Okay, that's great." And it was zero hesitation.

And I remember surprising being surprised at that because, you know, I'm a little innocent, sweet girl. And so going into world with all military, going with a world with bad guys. Um, little did I know what I was in for, but Caleb was immediately supportive. He was great. So, let's get started.

All right. So, you're 14 now. All right. So, get really good at writing your English reports. Like, he get really good.

and he would send me um hopefully this isn't betraying any um NDA for him. Yeah. Um he would send me the old school paper advances that he had to do especially for one client and I remember it was this thick and he sent it in the mail and you know all the all the very sensitive details were whited out but he was like hey so this is your motivation like if you want to work to this like if you want to get to this job then in your school right now like focus on your English focus on your spelling like Caleb was notorious for being a bad speller. So u we both did not value education. Caleb graduated when he was he stopped doing school when he was 14 and I stopped when I was 16.

Um, school was very much just a waste of time for me. It was boring. I did not it was so optional because thankfully because things like ballet um I stopped doing ballet when I was 14 and mainly because I had an opportunity to start traveling with some youth organizations and so I thought why am I wasting my time doing ballet if I'm not going to be professional. um then I need to start working and I need to start getting a job so then I can go to, you know, Europe for the summer and and quickly get that. And so school was like, "Yeah, yeah, I'll do I'll go school later." Like, I'll just get it done with um and I didn't want to go to college.

My parents weren't going to pay for it. So there wasn't any um point for me to sit here in putting so much, unfortunately, just not putting a lot of value into education, which probably would have helped me. But there was this love of like I want real life experience. I want to go see the world. I want to go have these crazy adventures just like Caleb had and I want to I want a non-boring life.

It's really what it is. So So at 14 and that's kind of a weird thing for a little girl to say to be like, "Oh, I want to I want to go into executive protection." Like and knowing what it is. um in the very real sense too of of Caleb um had a had a celebrity the music artist that he had been protecting and the stage got rushed and Caleb was in the hospital for a few days and so it was also very clear that it is very very dangerous job I didn't have any I mean I have brothers but I didn't tussle with them I didn't they're so much older than me right so it's not like I had that sibling rivalry of like oh let's just you know wrestle let's just you know the boys picked on me, but they're brothers, so they're uh they're going to have their fun. But um it it's funny looking back now of like, wow, at such a young age, that was such a clear goal. Um and then what kind of flipped the switch of we're going to pursue this career was where every good story starts.

Sorry, I got my cord stuck. Um, I met a boy and this boy I really liked and I was gonna marry him and I was gonna be just this perfect little housewife and I was I think I was 19 and was going to have those those babies, bake those pies. Yeah. And um we went on a date and everyone in our little friend group knew that I liked this guy. And so we went on a date and and thankfully another friend of mine had asked him and he was like, "Hey, I heard you went on a date with Melinda." And and this boy was exciting.

Like he had a huge lifted truck, which is a big thing. Um like that was that was cool. Um we he was adventurous, he was loud, he was just a fun guy. And so it was exciting to be with him and and just the whole whole everything in that season when you're 19 like this is exciting. Um, I I kind of missed out on a lot of childhood memories and experiences because my parents were sick for a very long amount of time.

And so I stayed home a lot of my teenage and and really until I was 21 to take care of them, right?

And so there was a little bit of making up for lost time. I didn't have a rebellious period. I didn't have I wasn't acting out. I wasn't ever curious with drugs or alcohol or um I was always boy crazy, but it was it was just cuz like they had cool toys. They had they did fun stuff like they shot guns and they raced cars and um it was exciting.

And so here I have this guy that's like he is excitement and um a friend of mine had asked him, "Hey, I heard you went on a date with Melinda." He goes, "Yeah, yeah." He goes, "Oh, is there going to be a second one?

Like how'd it go?

Did you guys have fun?" And he goes, "Honestly, guy, dude, no. Uh, she's pretty boring." And I I don't need that. And thankfully, that friend told me, which I'm very glad. Yeah. Um, because at that moment, of course, I made the statement.

I will never have a man ever say that about me ever again. Yeah. Um, and the truth of it, like you said, I was boring. Like that's just that is the real truth of it. Um, the funny part now is he lives the most boring life of of anyone I know.

Um, he married the world's most boring woman and uh, my mom runs and runs the bank all the time and she goes, "Oh, I'm so glad you never got with that guy." Oh, and then now he has a receding hairline, so it's even better. Oh, yeah. So, uh, thank you to him. Thank you to him for that inspiration and that, um, inspiration, like I said, to just I'm never ever going to have someone ever say that about me again. Yeah, that kind of like gave you the motivation literally like I'm better than this.

I'm better than this. And it was a wakeup call of like I was I was like a 19-year-old girl does. I was about to marry this man. Yeah, obviously I wasn't. Um but realizing, hey, I'm 19 and I have the whole world in front of me.

I have a whole life. Like I can always have pies and babies. Yeah. But I mean to a certain age, but I I should get all the life experience I can now because when else when else am I going to have this season?

And I remember um what also came from him is the friend group at that time is I got really into street racing with cars and I really found a love for it. And this is when I'm starting to get frustrated being home. I'm starting to just I'm not being rebellious but of just curious realizing hey I'm 19 20 years old what have I done with my life and what am I doing with my life right so cars became that outlet for me and my brothers always raced and and they were always tuning up and you know they had our our hometown is pretty famous for a lot of street racing and so um what town is it?

It's Spokane Washington. Okay. Um, it's right near Court Lane and it's spent a few hours south of Canada. But I I had gotten a really great really great dream car and for me racing it wasn't about going fast. It was about how can I not feel fear in a car.

So how can I master you know it snows up there. So, how can I get my car completely get it out of control and feel comfortable with this feeling of not letting fear overtake me?

And how can I then turn this situation and know when I have control of the car and it it's a, you know, watching way too much Fast and Furious and Herby growing up, that definitely influenced it. Um, but then I also realize, you know, when you start racing against guys and then you roll the window down and then they realize it's a chick instead of a guy, then it's like, oh, that's a good feeling. So, That definitely that definitely played a part of it. Um, but at that point I had told Caleb, "Hey, I I think I'm ready to bite the bullet. I think I really want to go into EP and I' I'd like to move to California." So, that was the specific That was the specific moment.

Um, very powerful of being embarrassed, right?

Um, with the truth, like you said, literally the truth. I did nothing. I had no life experience. And so, Caleb said, "Okay, this is great. So what you what you really should do is he goes, "You need to go to EMT school." So nobody can verify how you deal with emergency situations.

You don't know how you deal with emergency situations. So regardless if you're a bank teller, if you're a soccer coach, you know, whatever else you do in life, EMT will always hold value in your life. So it's a great investment. Start with EMT school. Get that done.

Go to executive protection school. Get and that's a 28 day course. It's not like a degree or something. So, it's 28 days. Went to ESI in Colorado and then moved to California, moved to the Bay where every single tech billionaire is based out of.

And at that time, there was only that I knew of four other females in the Bay. And so, Caleb said, "You are you're going to be hired immediately just because you're a female." Um because they need females so so desperately. um you're probably going to get hired on with a family. And then the best part about that, because I initially told him like, I want to go to driving school. That's what I want to do.

And he was like, "Okay, we we could, you know, save up for driving school and you could do a two-day course for $5,000 or you can do this route, go to EMT school, go to ESI, move to the Bay, and then uh they'll pay for you to go to all the best schools." So, I thought that's a great idea. Yeah. So, I like that tradeoff. Um, and I I really went into it really open-minded with um, of course, scared me shitless, but it was uh, I wanted to be able to say I tried it and I wasn't good at it or I tried it and I didn't even like it versus 10 years down the road being like, I wish I would have. Yeah, exactly.

And so I went in really open-minded, but also really giving myself permission to not be good at it. Yeah. Um kind of like a no pressure kind of, right?

Right. I mean, and you're you're you have a big brother who's also a legend in the industry. He's done incredible things and and there wasn't also anyone that I knew of that was a role model for females. Like I didn't really know what it would look like. Um, and thankfully that actually wasn't a big deal for me.

Um, and and what happened at ESI was I went and I immediately was surprised because I thrived in that environment and you know the the learning the school and learning um the different types of EP. It was it was very valuable because I was very fortunate to be one of the last classes that learned EP the old school way. Okay. of um the big long paper advances or writing um strip maps of locations never using your phone. So EP without using technology completely different, you know, a little more like analog very much so.

And and what I didn't realize what the value in that would be is later down the road when you're working with with men that have done it for old school way, you have some context and they're impressed when you're not you're not so dependent on the phone like you have you have some depth to you. So I was grateful that that thankfully that time I I got given I didn't realize it at the time uh so much value of going to ESI during that time and then I moved here to the Bay and I I got hired on immediately with a family detail and um kind of we went off to the races after that. So started that's that's initially how I got into it. all because of a boy embarrassing me. Then deciding, okay, I need to I need to do something with my life.

And I loved that I didn't have to go to a four-year college. I love that I didn't have to have a degree. Like, they were all tangible accomplishments. The EMT brought value. Um, it brought so much more confidence in understanding how you work with teams, how you're communicating.

Um, and then emergency situations. The best truth of advice I got very first day from the EMT instructor was the moment you step on scene, it's someone else's emergency. It's not your emergency. And that has carried from being a little girl literally to today. Yeah.

Of remembering it's it's your emergency. It's not my emergency. We're okay. So, um, that was a great way to kind of kind of step into this field and yeah. Yeah.

History. So, so let's talk a little bit about your brother, Caleb Gilbert. He's the president of White Glove Protection Group. He's on the IPSB board. Um, so is there any like sibling? Is there like a sibling duo? How is that perceived in the industry?

It's a lot of fun. Yeah. Um there's a lot of people that to this day I've I've been doing EP for 10 years now that have no idea that we're siblings. Um in the beginning we would have a lot of fun with it because Caleb was very well known. Um and we would go to like these EP conferences and you'd have guys that would be like, "Caleb, I want I want you to meet this brand new girl.

Like dude, she's great. Like she's moldable. She's she's a really adaptive. She's going to be a good learner." And I would be like, "Mr. Gilbert, so great to meet you.

Linda, I've heard a lot about you. And then, you know, the the realization of name tag, name tag. Oh, no. No, you both look a lot alike. Like, once you see the two of us together, we do quite look quite a bit alike.

Um, and so it was it was a lot of fun. Um, there's there's one other brother brother duo and a sister sister duo. M um but Caleb and I, especially getting into the industry, it was very important for me not to be under his shadow or to think that or have people think that he opened all the doors for me. Mh. So, and I I actually very quickly got very defensive of no, I'm I'm my own person.

I'm not Caleb's. Um thankfully, especially at ESI, I I really started the trend. Um I didn't start it. Someone else someone else coined it of becoming the little sister of the industry. And I'm very grateful for that because um very very you know anytime you're introduced at a mixer at a conference, oh Caleb's little sister, oh Caleb's little sister.

and um very quickly having fun with that, but then making sure my work was known for my work, my work ethic, you know, taking all the miserable jobs. Um and and it and thankfully, you know, 10 years later, it's happened that way. I'm known for very different things. I have very different passions. Um we have we actually have similar passions for the industry, but we go about it two very different ways.

Um, and there there was also the hard side of a lot of men trying to use me to get to Caleb. So, right, Caleb had all the jobs. He had all the cool sexy details. Yeah. And so, if you can make friends with the little sister, then of course she sent him.

So, there was a lot of, "Hey, I'll buy a drink for you. Hey, can I Oh, I'd love to I'd love to talk to you. Oh, tell me more about your You like caught on to that very quickly and I got very protective of that." um and very distrusting of people, which was a good thing. Um but I I do remember a friend being like, "Hey, you don't have to be so defend like the guy's just trying to be nice, do you?" Yeah. Well, you don't know who's being authentic.

You don't know. And and also being a female and being so young, I mean, I was 21 when I got into this. I didn't drink for the first few years of this career. Um because you're you're figuring out who's trustworthy and who's not. Mh.

Um, and and I am just so proud that Caleb has never opened doors for me. There's never a part of my career that I can Oh, yeah. Caleb got me that job. The only thing that Caleb did in the very beginning was give me the phone number of the recruiter for my very first job cuz I had no idea how to find a recruiter. Yeah.

So, um, that's he's he's been definitely my sounding board, and there's been a lot of challenging situations I've been in in this career where his wisdom has been very, very helpful to have as a mentor. Um, but he's not been my only mentor. Yeah. So, have you had any other mentors or I've had other people that um I have been able to they've not been long-term?

Um I've had certain team leads and and managers that have influenced a huge part of my career. I've had um even even people at ESI um one of the main instructors there, he had just a lot of really great life advice that he ended up giving and it maybe wasn't EP specific but of just how to play the game of EP. It's such a vicious game, right?

And so that's what I really learned at ESI is how you the networking, the people, the backstabbing, the distrust. Yeah. The ugly side of it, right?

Um so so but it's it's now fun. I started my first detail with Caleb and now I work with Caleb again after 10 years. And so kind of book book ends of my career and kind of like a a full circle moment. Yeah, it's a really big full circle moment. So, it's it's fun now, you know, being on that first detail and then now working with, you know, no value that I'm bringing to Caleb, such a liability.

But then now being with Caleb where I bring value to him, he's able to ask me, I have experience that he doesn't have, which is crazy as a little sister to to have a big brother that you've always idolized and you've always looked up to for your whole life and now he's asking, "What do you think about this?" Or, "Hey, do you know any information?

How would you handle this?" um cuz just based off of you know unique life experience. I will say I don't I only know of one other married couple both husband and wife to EP. Um but I do have to say there there is a part that you have to have a boundary of protecting your relationship to if I'm having a conversation with Caleb knowing is big brother Caleb talking right now or is my boss you know years before. Yeah. is is managerial, you know, team lead Caleb talking because if you're going to chew me out for doing something wrong as a manager, yell at me all day.

I definitely did something wrong. But if you're my big brother yelling at me, saying that you're, you know, mad at me, then I will cry for weeks. Like, I will be flattened. So, it's it's a fun duo. I really I really have fun with it.

And I think the industry has fun with it, too. It's it's very heartwarming. And again, there is so many other big brothers I have in this industry. Yeah, I've always I've been so fortunate to have men that have put me under their wing, protected me, given me good advice, um given me the heads, hey, don't trust that guy. Hey, don't don't talk to that guy.

Yeah, don't don't do that detail. Don't do that. So I guess what were there any other challenges when you first got into this field or like I said the kind of predatorial men that would reach out to me, befriend me um to get to Caleb. That was definitely one. Um, there is also the reality that you are a young, pretty single female in a very male-dominated industry.

And so, um, you get a lot of attention and that just makes you very defensive. Like I said, I I didn't drink. I didn't put myself in a lot of situations for that very reason of I have to focus on my career. I have to get a name for myself. I can't be associated as, you know, Caleb's little sister that's has every door open to her.

But on the other hand, because there was only one I was one of, you know, four females in the bay, there was so many job offers. I mean, within my first week of getting out of EP school, I had three major job offers. One was for a half a million. Wow. Literally, literally protecting this 12-year-old in New York City.

You would basically be the big sister nanny guard for her. And I just remember being like, that's a lot. That's what world did I just step in?

And so if anything, it was too much. I got offered really really big jobs and and thankfully Caleb, this was his biggest piece of advice starting out is do not be in a rush. Like don't take the cool sexy details like you're not if you're not ready for it. So making sure I said yes to all the the jobs that were at my level. So, doing the residential stuff, doing the RST, um saying yes to every single job was so valuable.

I would learn, you know, I'd be assigned to a main client, but then um this company called ASolution, the contracting company I was working for at the time, which was where I met Allan. M um there were so many other pop-up details to where maybe a family like a Japanese family that lived five blocks over um they needed just night protection and so you'd pick up a random shift but that's a completely different estate completely different way of doing your notes completely different interaction with the client and then there might be another detail of an Indian family and they had kids and they had nannies and they had house staff and so actually the the challenge is that there was so much work. There was such a need and so you just constantly got barded of bombarded of everybody wants you um just based on the fact that you're a woman. It's literally like they don't care about your skills at that point. We just need a woman to to be on this detail.

Uh and and there's so much value in that too of learning just context of how different things are different houses run, different management styles, different um protective postures. Some clients always wanted you to be at the gate. Some clients never wanted to see you. Some clients wanted you to be seen so that when they had these house parties, it was a statement of their wealth to see their security lined up for these house parties. Um so it was great.

There's a lot of value. A lot of value in that season. So, so I guess we're going into I mean we're going into the stories right now. So, yeah. Um yeah.

So, I guess that's what I was going to buckle up. That's what I was going to ask next. Uh so, are there any stories from from the field that you can share um from those early years?

I I was on residential security for two years and then I I had a transition where I was able to um be on a hybrid team where you did residential, you you stayed at the house, but then you drove the client mom and dad quite a bit. Um, and it worked out because I was a female that this mostly the wife wanted wanted a female around her 16-year-old daughter who did water polo. Okay. Much more peace of mind for a female to be with a little 16-year-old in her cute little water polo outfit versus the guys on the team. Yeah.

And so, um, you have a lot of really great stories. A lot of life lessons were learned. You know, if we talk about failures and later on, a lot of my stories came from that one of just a lot of trial and error. Um, and then I was moved from that detail and I had an opportunity to be on a really high threat covert protection team up in San Francisco and I was in the worst neighborhood and and wild. All my all my crazy stories come from that one.

Mhm. Um and then CO happened and I made the transition into corporate and I've been doing that for the last 5 years. So that's kind of like the timeline. Um but the the covert team had the most crazy stories because um you know if you take EP, regular EP, it's it's very black and white where you pick the client up from point A and you drop them off at point B, right?

That's your day. you you have movements, you have schedules. Um, and and it's pretty cut and dry what's expected of you to wear a covert protection, if it's actual true covert protection, your client does not know you. They don't know your face. They don't know what you look like.

They just know they have little Jason Bourne fairies somewhere around. The moment that something happens, you're going to be there. Um, but cover protection is like you're on LSD. Anything goes. Like you can wear the craziest things to shift.

You're doing the craziest thing for the sake of your job. Um and and specifically this this detail that I worked up in the city for um was a girlfriend of a very wealthy man and she lived her life and that was her only rule is I don't want to see security. I don't ever want to feel that my life is in danger. I don't want my friends to know that I have security. I don't want to ever have that looming like they're watching me.

I I don't want them in my mind. Like I want to live my life. Um unfortunately though, this woman had a very colorful life. And so she she went to very interesting neighborhoods. She went into the worst places in San Francisco and Oakland and Richmond and um road public transportation.

And so if you're if she's doing that, then we're doing that. Mhm. And a lot of a lot of my um what the the cool part about this job was my director at the previous team I was on um had switched and and he was a director of security now on this this covert team at my last detail. It ended pretty rough. I had a I had a harassment issue with one of my team leads.

Wow. And they were they were very unprofessional in front of the client, in front of the house staff. And um I get this random call, hey, you should interview for this covert team. And I had actually two interviews. I was going to go one direction to go be with a nanny detail or this opportunity to do this this covert team.

And I remember thinking, well, been there, done that. This sounds really interesting. And I remember driving into the city with that director that I, you know, worked with for the last year and a half. And he, it was just him and me. We're driving up and he goes, "Melinda, I want you to know you're not qualified to be on this team.

You have, you have no skill set that is really really going to be good." um you know he goes you're not qualified to be on this but he goes I saw what happened at the last detail I saw your character and I saw how the client you treated the client and he goes because of how you handled that situation and your character he goes I knew when I started this team I wanted someone with that level of character so what I need you to do very seriously you are going to be on this team and we have the highest level of milit military op guys. We have, you know, PJs and Navy Seals and CAG guys and these SAS agents and um all the special forces special man. And he goes, I need you to be a really good learner. I need you to to listen to everything they say. I need you to soak up every bit of wisdom.

And he saw that potential in me. And I was so grateful. You know what?

Really redeemed the previous situation of of the last team kind of ending so bad. And what I didn't realize is my life was about to change. And on that covert team, I had just the beauty of being mentored by the world's coolest guys. Yeah. Of learning international ops, guys that had done CIA stuff, that had done so much fieldcraft.

They had done so much um international ops and so good at teaching me body behavior. Um how does the human brain recognize certain people?

Um it it's really fascinating on how do you pick a person out of a crowd of a thousand people?

How do you find your client?

There's tricks to that. Um there's ways of manipulating even your own body language of that you'll never be rememberable while you're walking down the street even though I just passed you five times. Our brain is fascinating. And so I learned I got mentored just from these incredible men. Yeah.

On human behavior. And it really forced me to be creative and a really good example was the client um was walking to work one day and I was by myself. So she popped in and you don't have a schedule. You don't know where she's going. You don't know what she's doing.

Um so you're kind of just at the wheel. You're just following her. And I had I think at one of the stop lightss I'd heard her on the phone saying like, "Hey, I'm gonna pop into the studio." and then I'm going to leave and I'm going to Uber over to Oakland, wherever. Mhm. And so I text my partner.

I said, "Hey, um she's heading she's going to get in the Uber, so go get the car." So he goes and gets the car. I'm by myself. And this neighborhood that her workplace was at. Um it was on a street. It was on the side alley street and it was pretty notorious for cops not coming down it.

It was pretty rough. Um, it's a really, really rough part of San Francisco. And you got very quickly adapted to street life and you made friends with the gang members and with the drug dealers and with anyone who owned that street corner. Um, meanwhile, we're not cops. So, yeah, we don't have resources.

It's just us. We're kind of sitting ducks. You're there'd be long periods of time where you'd be in a car just outside of her, you know, the workplace. Mhm. Um, but everyone knows and sees you.

You're this suspicious, who are these people?

Are they cops?

Are they not cops?

So, it's better to form relationships. Totally. And kind of, but then also having a cover like three years of having a cover story of why are you here every day?

Why are you sitting in the car every day, you know, from this time to this time, but you're not a cop, but you're you're not a drug. Like, what are what are you, you know?

Yeah. Um and and you would build that relationship with like, hey, you can shoot up in our car and we'll hide you from the cops. But little do they know we're the ones that call the cops. That way the cops would do a little patrol just to ensure that we weren't cops. Um so you learn these like human secrets of of kind of manipulating your environment.

Yeah. Um and my best example is that that day she you know pops inside and there was it was just a bad day in the city that day. just everyone was out. There was lookouts everywhere. Everyone's everyone's out and there's just a tense feeling on the street.

And I remember thinking, I don't know how the two of us little white girls are going to, you know, how are we going to how do I how do I safely get her off this street and get these guys to go away cuz everyone is watching us. We just stand out like a sore thumb. And at that moment I thought, what's the one thing that normal people in the city would never think of is bird sounds. And so I may start making because a normal person goes, "Oh, there's some beautiful birds around here." But meanwhile, every single person on the street knows that's the call for the cops are coming. And so I start just making silent little bird sounds.

and everyone goes into their little corner and client comes out and we walk around the corner and she gets in her Uber and you know my partner comes up with the car and and we you know continue on go to the next destination. So little stuff like that to like oh that's genius like it's I'm not here like fighting every guy on the street. I'm not I'm not outdoing him. I'm not out toughing him. But how do you like I said manipulate your environment to work for you having street smarts.

Totally. Totally. And and a lot of these stories, you know, I there was a point where I we just joked like we just turned into little hood rats. Um my funniest story is same situation. Client was walking over.

I was by myself on a street corner and I was kind of grumpy that day. I don't remember what the content I mean it might have been like, you know, my eighth or ninth work day in a row. So I'm just annoyed. And I knew she was going to pop out and client or my my partner went to go get the vehicle and I was on the street corner and this huge big black guy on a bicycle comes over to me and you know he's eyeing me and he's big big guy and I notice in his belt he's got a really big knife and he's got a screwdriver and and what I had learned from the streets is that a knife necessarily isn't a weapon. And it's definitely intimidation like don't mess with me, I got to it's very clearly I'm hacking.

Um if you have a gun, very different meaning. Um but a screwdriver was really prevalent at that time for stabbings. And so here I am with this giant man looming nowhere to go. He's got a screwdriver and he comes over on his bike and he goes, "You waiting for an Uber?" And I was like, "Yeah, I'm waiting for an Uber." Goes, "Look no further. Your ride's right here." And again, I was annoyed.

And and this is the other part about um human behavior on bad guys just love intimidation. And if you're not int like they love an easy target. If I learned anything about crooks, bad guys, whatever you want to call it, they're the opposite of the US Postal Service. Like through sleet and snow and hail, like the post will go on. especially San Francisco, they are fair weather workers to where if it's raining, it's the safest day in the city.

If it is sunny, everyone's out and everything's kind of like just the roaches are coming. Um, and so, so I don't and I'm grateful for how I responded in this moment because I was just annoyed. I didn't have time to be scared, but he's like, "Well, look, no, furl. Your ride's here." And I was like, "You know, you can go. I I don't have time for this.

And he looks me over and he goes, "Are you selling dope?" And I immediately, without any hesitation, I go, "Well, this is the street you buy it on, so naturally that would make sense, wouldn't it?" And his posture starts changing and he goes, "I I think he got, you know, Coke or Molly." And I was like, "What?

Not heroin?" And he and he again, his whole posture is now changing. And he goes, "No, you don't really seem like the heroin type of dealer." And I took my coffee and I threw it on the ground. I was like, "Dude, I'm offended. If I want to sell heroin, I could sell heroin." And he's like, "I I got to go." And you know, I'm just like the nerve of him. And then right at that moment, my partner was pulling up in the car and I'm just mad walking back to the car and I slam the door and he goes, "What just happened?" And I was like, "So, so what did he think?

Did he think it was just not an easy target?

Like he's trying to intimidate me. He's trying to tower over me and I'm just not budging. Like I just did not have the time that day to be intimidated. Like I got I got, you know, compliance reports I need to do. I have, you know, I've got bigger things to worry about than this giant man looming over me.

And and it was it was too difficult of a target. So it was like, okay, I'm going to waste my time. I'm going to waste my time with you. Yeah. Um, so he, you know, I get back into the car and I slam the door and my partner is like, "Did you not see the knife?" And I was like, "I saw the knife." And he's like, "Did you not see the screwdriver?" And I was like, "I saw the screwdriver." And he goes, "What just happened?" And I was like, "He said I couldn't sell heroin." And I want to sell heroin.

I could sell heroin. And he was like, "Dude, you have been on the streets way too long." Which is so funny to share. But but then the really ugly part of this job was um the reality is you became especially as girls essentially a paid victim. And that's not talked about very often in the security industry because you're supposed to be the protector. And so with this team with this job specifically there there's such good examples that I don't think many people actually face in this career.

Um I I'm not really proud of this, but I do have the most um they're called AOP, so attack on attack on principal where I've had many I have the most in the Bay Area of my clients being attacked. And that's not to say anything about my security posture, but it's to say that I have been in real life situations where the client is about to die or the client isn't immediately in threat in the client is being threatened with immediate danger. And um whether it's a knife, whether it's a man following her for a certain amount of time, whether it's a house robbery that you're responding to and you're talking to your client and you're keeping them calm. Mhm. while they're locked in a closet thinking they have five more minutes left to live.

Mhm. And that's the real life scenarios that you're put in that I don't think a lot of people in the industry have. They have, you know, we got a threatening, you know, person hop the fence or, you know, we had a paparazzi stalker issue. Um, but there there is the reality to especially this team where it's it's good examples of how do we handle that emotional side of the job. Um, like I said, especially for us girls with a female client, there may be men that are cat calling her.

You know, she's beautiful. She's getting all the attention to where you're the protector. And so you flipped the situation and now the men are focused on me or focused on the other girls on the team. Mh. Um to where you're in this constant feeling of danger because they're out danger.

They they mean it. They they are going to kill you. M um and this is where I I kind of credit like charm and humor like literally saving my life more than combives or any you know fancy jiu-jitsu has ever taught me because there's moments where you know same same street a lot of stories from this one street that we were on. Um you would you would be in a car for a long period of time just waiting for her to you know pop out of her workplace. Um, but we didn't have a restroom or you just had a car.

So, you might be there for a whole day. She may be, you know, 9 to5. Um, so you have to go out and go find a market or a coffee shop to go use a restroom or get food. Um, and everyone's watching you the same as you're watching everyone else. And there was this one moment, um, there's this many people from the street that stand out of just you're watching the worst part of humanity.

You're watching people my very same age in their young 20s that are injecting heroin in places that heroin's not supposed to go. Yeah. Um you're watching someone's body decay in front of you. You're watching a person die literally right in front of your your car and with an overdose and then seeing how their body is literally robbed within two minutes of everything that they owned and then the ambulance comes scoop them up and the next person comes along. Mhm.

Um there's a part of just that street lowife um lifestyle that is heavy. You're watching people around you be victims every day. you're watching. Um, you know, I have this one story of where I was I think I had to go use the restroom or something and and there was this guy in the street was just a rough rough rough person and pure evil. And I remember I had to walk past him to go use the restroom and go to this market around the corner.

And um I remember him looking at me as I walked past and he looked at me and he goes, "When you come back here, I'm going to rape you." And I Is this the first time you've ever seen him or No, I've seen him before. I'd seen him do a very violent things to people on that street just from just being there. Just whether he's coming off a high, whether he's he's tripping like starting his trip up. Yeah. Um it when the heroin's starting to wear off that's when they're really agitated.

Um when they initially inject then it's it's happy, it's peaceful. They're, you know, tweaking out on the threads of the water bottle of the threads of their um clothes. But when they're coming off, they're unhappy because I don't feel good anymore. Now it's wearing off and that's when they get agitated. So this man, you know, he's watching me the same as I'm watching him.

And and so he tells me, "I'm going to rape you." And I remember that moment, and this is pretty dark, so I'm sorry for this, but um he looked at me and I just smiled real big and I said, "Not if I rape you first." And again, there's moments where you're I can't be You don't intimidate. Don't show that weakness cuz they are going to jump on it. What was his reaction to that?

He definitely was caught off guard. And what's funny is when I came back, he wasn't there. And and I don't know what I was going to do cuz I still had to walk back to my car. And and there would be moments where you'd be in a car and and countless times people would try to get to me inside the car. I mean, metal pipes just beating the car up and I don't know why the the glass didn't break.

You know, garden angels definitely were very busy during that time of um you're constantly living in that state of fear. And the the last story I have from this one is there was this man who was getting ready for uh the night and he was he was putting on his makeup and he was putting on his outfit and I had my phone out and I was recording him because I was this h I mean just pure comedic just content right here and um it was kind of bit of a scene from like white chicks to where um he looked up and he saw me. He saw I was recording him and I had the window cracked in the car about this much and he comes over and he pulls out a knife on me on the car like he's going to stab the car. Yeah. And um he goes, you know, his deep love, [ __ ] you got a problem.

And I remember leaning over again, smiling real big, and be like, "Nope, I was just admiring your beautiful scarf." And he goes, "Girl, I got it at Macy's for $5." I think and but then in all seriousness, he looked at me and he goes, "I see you here all the time." Yeah. And he goes, "Every time you're parked here, you don't have to worry. Like, I'll make sure you're okay." Mhm. And that was huge. And there were so many moments from the street that other low-life individuals saved my life when I was about to get stabbed, when I was about to be attacked.

Um, you've kind of experienced the extreme of both. Yeah. And but yet I'm the protector. And so what psychologically was happening during that season and it was 3 years. I'm not telling anyone that I'm scared shitless after every single shift and I've got these horrific images that are in my mind, situations that have happened that it's not like, you know, you get done with work on Saturday night and then Sunday morning you're out to brunch with your girlfriends and you're like, "Oh, so how was your work week?" And you're like, "Well, I can't tell you." Yeah.

Um, so you've had to kind of like get compartmentalized. You compartmentalize, but then also being a female being very young as well put a interesting dynamic because I rationalized it as you've just never been in combat. All these other guys, they're used to this. They're used to, you know, seeing death. They're used to seeing horrific images and humanity not doing good things.

Yeah. Um, and so you're just green. So, every time I wasn't necessarily a victim in a certain situation or um constantly felt in danger, I just kept telling myself, "Oh, you just need to toughen up." Like, you're the protector. Yeah. Like, this is literally what you're paid to do.

Like, the client didn't die today. You nearly did. That's what you're paid to do. You know, like the same as if you're working on an ambulance, you know, you get a reward for saving someone's life. That is literally your job.

Yeah. you know, so there became that um honestly there there was a lot of PTSD. There was a lot of um imposttor syndrome of of this must just be scarier than I remember it being or um I remember when I stopped doing that job, I had a lot of withdrawals. I had a lot of nightmares. I had a lot of um what now I know are just triggers for PTSD of feeling um you know I'd go home every night and go to bed and be like okay thank you dear Jesus I didn't die today let's try not to die tomorrow and um I remember when I got I was not doing that job anymore friends were being like oh how's your life now and I was like I just miss so much of that life and they were like you were literally living in fear fear for your life um why would you miss that?

And and it's funny how memories like that uh really work in your favor sometimes because sometimes when you need confidence going to the next situation, you know what's really handy?

Going into that really scary moment, replaying that, remembering the tingles, remember your heart rate, remember all those feelings, all the sounds, all the, you know, heart heart pattering padding. And now I'm the bad guy. now I'm the aggressor and I'm not the little victim that feels scared anymore. And when you go, you know, into this, you know, next situation, then you have that confidence. Um, but what really blew my mind was about a year later after doing that detail, I again, I never told anyone.

I never told anyone, "This is terrifying. I'm scared every single shift." Um, but I'm the protector. I'm supposed to be the one to like not feel scared. I'm I'm supposed to be the tough one. Mhm.

Um, so I just must not be tough. And I remember going out to a a bar with some two of the guys from that team and I ended up breaking down and I I cried to them. Um, it was the first time I'd ever done that. And I said, you know, I don't I don't know if you guys know, but I was so scared during that entire season. And what was really encouraging was one of the guys, he started saying stories.

Yeah, but do you remember that one time this happened and you stopped the guy with the knife?

Right. No, but do you remember that other time where like we all saw what happened and we were so proud?

That's our girl. Like we were so proud of you for how bold you were in that one moment or um just even the rape joke like dude we were so proud of you. Um, and then another guy who who had done a lot of years uh combat overseas, he said, "I don't I don't think you ever knew that I and many of the other guys on the team were on the highest level of anti-anxiety medication because I was more scared on that street than I ever was in Afghanistan in the combat zone." And so then it edified and it it it put value to those experience to then take what I thought was kind of a failure of like, oh, you're just being a chicken. And then you're realizing that you're not alone. I'm realizing I'm not alone.

And I'm realizing there was actually so much strength in those stories and so much confidence going into, you know, future stories. M um and it really is big hearing someone else and and I've been so fortunate just having such great guy co-workers that have been very protective of me but are such a big advocate for um reminding you of your strength and um that was that was a big moment and and then realizing that you essentially I essentially you know had the equivalent of like a three three-year combat tour, right?

Um, to which you can't say that. Of course, you know, everyone's going to twist that and be like, you're comparing EP to, you know, actual war zones and and I'm not, but I'm saying there's a lot of very similar body reactions, psychological reactions. You still have to wear off the the little PTSD triggers, right?

Um, which thankfully I I don't have anymore. I'm very happy to not have that. But then it also has given me so much depth for other men that do have PTSD and it's given respect to I understand I don't I don't I wasn't there when you had to kill that child or I wasn't there when you had to do that you know moral conflict raid but I know how it feels and I'm very familiar with fear very familiar with um the relationship of working through it and not being able to tell family members not being able to have anyone that relates to you. Um, and so that's why I think that the EP industry is really big for these law enforcement and military guys because you crave that brotherhood. You crave people that have those same similar experiences and that's the beauty I think of this industry.

So that's my long long very long drawn out story from the street, but it's it provides really good context of I don't know how many other teams have had situations like that. Yeah. Um, and no one talks about that when, like I said, of the protector being scared. And it's a real thing. It's not a macho.

It's not an ego thing. It's the reality of courage is doing things even while you're scared. And so being courageous protectors means you can still be a little scared. You're human. So, so, so you're in a maledominated industry.

So as a woman, have you faced any other stereotypes or challenges based on that?

I have been so fortunate to not, especially starting out, my first seven years in the industry, I've really not faced it. There's been little comments here and there, right?

Um, excuse me. um where unfortunately it showed up. I well let me my second day in EP. Uh this is my one example. Um I was doing residential security for um this household and the house manager had come out and and everyone all the house staff was all females was very pro- feminist, very like screw men, women can do anything.

And so the moment they found out there was a girl on the team, they were just, you know, oh my gosh, this is great. Oh yeah, girls. Go girls. Yeah. And um my very first day solo, like I'm not training.

I'm I'm now a big big RST agent. Um and granted, I had just moved here from Washington State, so I'm this little kind of country bumpkin that is now in the big city. Mhm. And the house manager comes out and her car had died, her battery. And so she comes over and she's like, "Hey, my my battery is dead." And here I am thinking, "Yes, this is my one moment I can show.

I know how to do this. I know how to jump a car." So I said, "Oh, no problem. I got the cables in the back." And she immediately stopped and she went, "No, I don't want you touching my car. Go call one of the guys." And I was like, "No, I I fully know what to do. like this isn't I have a car that I just did it last week on my own car.

And she goes, "Do not touch my car. I only want a man to touch this car." Wow. And I remember thinking, "Okay, so you Okay, got it." And and unfortunately, most of my issues with being a female in EP has come from other women. Um, I've had conflict with other female um, agents. I'm a big advocate for it and I I make sure if there is a woman that I'm working with on the team to have that initial conversation of, hey, we're both two professionals and if you win then I win.

We're on the same side. So, there's none of this caddy, you know, girl competition, right?

um to where any issues I have had with females, it it's been an intimidation issue and then it just gets petty and I hate that. Yeah. Um there is unfortunately um the contracting world for me never faced it. When I switched to corporate security, that's where I really um started to see the stereotype of you're judged very quickly. Um my my first day in corporate, I came into the office and all of the office staff girls immediately came over and you know they're grilling me on, you know, so were you a Navy Seal?

So, what would you you know, like they're expecting you to be this GI Jane, you know, super sex, you know, symbol of, oh, you're a female bodyguard. Oh, that's so cool. Um, and then they think you must be like top of the top. Totally. Totally.

And then they see me in the double chin and like, you know, they they're women. We're human. and um just even talking or there's not especially at that job there wasn't much time to share stories and it's corporate so I can't share these stories of people telling that I they want to rape me to these office girls so I'm trying to like tastefully give some street cred without you know being crude and you know I'm used to all boys I'm used to all like super manly men and so now I'm in a corporate office environment and literally the one girl was like, "Well, just let us know what type of anti-anxiety meds you're on because then we can all sync up and we can all share it." Like, "Welcome to the jungle." And I just remember being and it was it was just this weird environment of um you were either one of the girls or like you're the butch like awkward girl. Um, it it's a weird you're feminine, but you're in a masculine role. Yeah.

And sometimes us women, I say us, but really them. Um, especially if they've never worked with a female EP agent before, they don't know how to act around you. They expect you to be this, you know, Miss Congeniality or Angelina Jolie, and you're not cuz that's not the job. And um the other beauty though of that was that was my first experience in in corporate. But then I had another experience where my my very first week one of the best team leads I I had he sat me down and he was from New York.

So he had a fun accent and um just Mr. personality and he sat me down and I don't think he realized how much this meant to hear, especially now seven years into my career. But he sat me down and he goes, "Listen, girly, we hired you to be a woman. We hired you to look like a woman. We hired you to act like a woman.

And so don't try to be a man on this team. We have men on this team. That box is checked." Yeah. So, I need you to be the most comfortable in your skin. I need you to be thriving in the areas because you're the only one.

You're our girl. Yeah. So, run with it and have fun with it. And you know, of course, he adds his little like and if I was uh if I was you in this industry, I wouldn't be wearing as many turtlenecks as you do, you know. So, he has he adds a little bit of fun fun to it, but I don't think that he realized how big that meant to hear.

Yeah. Um because and like a a man when you are in the coming into this industry you are a unique individual that bring a unique set of skills, personality traits, life experience and that is what is your leverage to be on a team. That's what makes that relationship with that client. And so using that female stereotype of of especially working with clients that's have maybe never had a female on the team. um owning it, working it to your advantage, and knowing your identity and being really confident in that of, hey, I'm a runner.

Hey, I'm a um you know, whatever your hobby is and owning it or I love traveling. I love cooking. I love, you know, whatever it is. Um so that's that's the initial Yeah. tiptoe into the the female side of so so I guess are there any specific unique strengths or perspectives that um that women bring to this industry?

I I think we are so much more detail oriented than men and it shows uh when you're doing surveillance a lot unless you know you're trained. Um us women are just we have that six sense you have the woman's intuition that does really pay off on a on a lot of teams. Um, and again, a lot of these teams I've worked on that's been seen as such a value and it's been, hey, you you look at life through a magnifying glass so you can pinpoint, you know, this issue or um, unfortunately, we get tasked with a lot of the admin tasks because, right, you know, these trusted freedom fighters don't want to sit here on a on a computer writing SOPs. they don't want to write the, you know, briefing for this, you know, upcoming trip and and, you know, that does turn into more of a a girl's um role, unfortunately. But so that's the difference between like the men and the women and Yeah.

And not all the time. There are some really great analytical men that are a great I mean, I work with one right now that he can just whip them out and he's so eloquent and and precise in his his communication. But I think for us women, there's there's also that peace of mind that especially female clients have when you're you have a female on the team. And and one of those prime examples is one one night I was on RST, so residential security, and I was going to drive the client up to a city. She had a gala she was going to and we were late and I had the car staged.

I'm waiting for her to get in the car. Now we're 15 minutes late. Now we're 20 minutes late. Now we're 30 minutes. And I'm like looking at traffic like now I have to get us on time through traffic to your gala and make you not late.

And it was all dark outside and finally she comes outside and she cracks the back door and you know the dome light turns on and she goes, "Melinda, it's you." Cuz you know she couldn't see who was in the car and I was like yeah what's up?

And she was like, "I have been upstairs and my zipper on my dress has been broke and I have been fiddling and trying to get it closed for the last 15 minutes." And she's like, "Everyone's gone. All the house staff, my husband, everyone's everyone's out for the evening." And she goes, "I knew that, you know, the guys on the team are, you know, they're all husbands and dads." She goes, "But would you mind zipping up my ball gown?" And of course, I rush out and, you know, zip her up and off we go to the party. Um but it was a it was a very quick introduction to sometimes you are that peace of mind for that female client just oh thank good another woman understands this or um that again that peace of mind was your 16-year-old daughter going to water polo she's just a big sister she's just the you know she sees things from a woman's perspective um and so there there's definitely moments that it's utilized really well and handy to have a female. So, yeah. Yeah.

So, I guess what what advice would you give other women looking to kind of break into protection security?

Yeah. I I thankfully have had the privilege of mentoring a lot of women that have been starting into it. Um, it's very easy to get lost in the tactical side of things, being tactical. Again, you have the there's not that many examples now. There now there is I I think that's definitely changed from when I first started to, you know, 2025 of there's more examples of females.

um there's more opportunities, but ask ask these women, reach out to them on LinkedIn, what do I wear?

You know, what do I you you are judged so differently on your appearance than the men are. And there's a part of EP for women that honestly it's a little more expensive for us because we have to have so many extra you, your makeup, your you're when you go out to dinner with a client, you can't just be in the same outfit that the boys were wearing at the beach earlier. Like, yeah, you just put on, you know, your Tommy Bahama shirt and and your nice khakis and you're set for dinner. Where a woman, every other woman in the restaurant is wearing designer clothes except you, but I can afford designer clothes and that's not really appropriate for me to be wearing designer clothes. Um, and so you have to be tasteful.

You have to be really creative on making sure that you're presenting yourself in a professional way. And so reaching out to these other women that um Rachel Vasin is someone who when I first got into the industry, she had just written an article on women in protection. And I can't speak before that cuz I wasn't in the industry, but I think it was one of the first times that people had a a snapshot of, oh, this is the value that women bring. Oh, this is the opportunities that this is what it can even look like. Mhm.

Um because again, I didn't have anyone. I didn't know what do I wear?

Like I don't what do I wear to a vacation to Hawaii with the client?

Mhm. Is it appropriate for me to be in a swimsuit?

Is it not appropriate?

Like if we're going to a gala, what do I wear?

Like am I supposed to be in a dress?

Because being the only woman not in a dress, it's going to stand out or you know there there's situations like that to where um you can't just pack your Hawaiian shirt. Exactly. Fortunately. and you're going to very nice locations where you are judged and treated differently based on how you look. And so, um, really asking that advice.

Um, I think where women it kind of gets cheapened with the industry is if you don't have a reputation for being known for your work ethic or being known for the value that you bring to these teams. Mhm. Um, like men, I'm not saying this is just women, but you very quickly resort to what you think does work. And so, what sells with women?

Sex. So, it very quickly comes cheap. And it's it's I can't get a job. Uh, uh, I really want to be on this travel detail. I'm not really qualified for it yet.

But you can show up to a mixer in a little lace bralette and a blazer and show your cool little gun buddy Instagram with your matching, you know, Lululemon set and your cool AR and of course they're going to hire you. Like duh, they're the men. Like, and unfortunately it works. Yeah. Um, and that's kind of the stereotype that really annoys me is that women work so hard like myself to be known for your work ethic.

You're known for, hey, this I can trust this girl in emergency situation. Especially on that covert team, it is life and death decisions. If I'm having a good day, if you're fighting with your wife and you're not in the right headsp space, that can cost us both our life. Like, I need you to be in the right head space. Like, I can't be fiddle [ __ ] around with like, you know, getting on a new medication or, you know, what what emotionally even having your hormones off cuz I can't be like, "Oh, she's crazy today.

Oh, it must be, you know, whatever that is." You have to be dependable. You have to be I mean, it it sounds dramatic, but there are certain days it was life and death. And so, um, for women to easily take this job and make it as frivolous as, oh, I'm just on the nanny detail, which you are. That's there's nothing wrong with that. Um, but where women just get desperate is is they think they have to kind of cheapen themselves to get these roles.

And it's again, it works. That's what's really frustrating. And I would love to see the standard for women kind of raise. I would love to see more examples of, you know, the the Butler shooting in um Pennsylvania is the perfect example because uh the Trump assassination attempt where you see the initial picture of you know that famous one of Trump and and you've got the blonde secret service agent. And I remember the moment that picture came out, I I literally immediately shared it on Instagram to be like, "This is such a win for women because not only is her collar so perfect, she had no wispies, her makeup looked great, you know, she's got the cool action shot and everything and it was just like, oh yes, what a badass.

This is so cool." But what does everyone talk about from that situation?

They all the memes, all the resentment, all the stories goes to the other female agent that was a soup sandwich. She looked a mess. She didn't know how to holster her gun. She clearly just did not have the train. She was having a bad day, you know, and that's what everyone remembers.

And so then that everyone thinks that's the standard and that's an example that everyone uses of why you shouldn't have women on teams and why they're not um capable of of being on these high-speed teams. And so that's my advice to women is keep the standard high and be really proud of that because class doesn't go out of style and that legacy people notice and it's it's a it's what keeps you not awake of uh not awake at night. You sleep really good knowing I did that job. I I mean even just certain examples that your co-workers are really your best advocates sometimes to where they're singing your praises. You remember that one trip?

Oh, when you did that. No. Nope. You know your stuff. Don't be insecure.

You know your stuff. So, um yeah, that's kind of what I have to say to the women. So, how how has a a career in executive protection impacted your personal and physical life?

greatly. I uh I just was looking at well yesterday actually it popped up on my phone of you know just memories just from six years ago let alone from the beginning into the industry starting into it and um it definitely takes its toll on you. It's a very unique strain on relationships. I I have the deepest respect for married couples that do this and especially family like fathers. Mhm.

Um because I'm just single, me, myself, and I. And I'm exhausted. So I don't know how at the end of a day then you sit and you hear how your spouse's wife spouse's day has been. Yeah. Hear about your kids and then still make intentional memories with them.

So, I've not graduated to that season of life yet, but um I can say it's it's it's funny how you think the perception of this job. It's again, it sells really well as just being sexy. So, you think everyone's going to want to be your friend, everyone's going to, you know, especially for being a female. you know, you you put it on a dating app and once guys actually find what you you do for a living, then um you get one of two reactions. You either get the over sexualized of like, oh, oh, wow.

Oh, well, you can protect me any day you want. Or, oh, I'm sure you love to fight, or um they think that we're whole scrappers. Like, they just everyone thinks that. And or and this may be geographically where I'm located. Um, unfortunately in in the dating industry or the dating industry, the dating world, um, I've had quite a few men ask if I would stop talking about my job because it makes them uncomfortable.

Um, so it's been very actually discouraging. And this is kind of where men and women differ in the industry because if a man says what he does, of course, every single woman wants a good protector. So that sells real well. the guys get the girls. That's easy.

That's a Everyone wants to be with, you know, James Bond. Um to where it takes a very special type of man to be able to be with a woman that is in a masculine role. Um and it is also very challenging to remember that you're basically for your job, you have to be masculine. You have to have the you're in a man's world. You have to talk like a man.

You have to understand how men communicate so differently than women and and manage differently and um so then to go to your personal life where you're supposed to be this cute little dainty like female um it takes a switch. And I want to be kind of careful on how I say this, but the women in the industry that I do know that are married, um, they're married to very interesting men that are either very passive or they they have their career and they're kind of the supportive spouse to the female having the main career. Um to which also the kind of what happens for especially females is you have either the younger girls like me like under 40 that this is their first career. This is what you do. This is my livelihood.

This is everything I everything that is a paycheck comes from this job. Then you have a whole separate group of females in the industry that are women that have already had a career whether was it is in law enforcement or even fitness and now they're in their 50s. There's a big amount of of women in their 50s that come into this career to have a second career. Your kids are grown up and they don't want to be, you know, retired life. So, they've still got a lot of spunk and a lot of value that they can bring.

And so, um, it's really divided into these two groups of very young, um, and probably very open to not being career women to then older women that, um, are just in a different season of life. A lot of them are already married or a lot of them are on their second, you know, third husband. Um, that's very different relationally than the women that are younger than 40 that are looking and trying to date and find trying to figure out again where is those those gender roles of if you hear a bump in the middle of the night. I sure as hell better not be the one that's that's going down to check you know what's at the front door. We can go together.

That's okay. I'll go with you. But you're the man and and I'm pretty traditional. So there's there's that for me where it's it's very difficult to find someone who is comfortable also with you being in a male-dominated industry and every day, every trip, every part of my life, it's Tom, Dick, and Harry. It's all the boys that I work with.

And the boys's cool story. And these are not your average like Joe Schmo. They are the world's coolest men with really cool stories and they're really badass. So you have to have someone again who is comfortable and confident enough. But then I've also found because women in the industry tend to be a little bit more alpha.

You are attracted to alpha guys as well. And if he is not in a healthy state of mind, it becomes either a competition of like you know military guys. Mhm. To where you out cool each other and it it doesn't make it fun. It's like I just did this.

I just did this really cool driving course. Well, I just did this. I just did, you know, whatever this whatever course. You're like, "Cool." Literally. Literally.

And it's like, that's not the point. I would never compare the military to EP. you have such different jobs, responsibilities, your exposure to things than I'm on a private jet. Like I'm staying at fivestar resorts and you're in an ugly smelly tent and I'm not comparing this as you know we're both uncomfortable. Um but then there's also the overcontrolling alpha to where again you're more you want to feel safe as a woman you still want to feel even though you're the protector I can be you know GI Jane I still want to feel safe with the man.

So, you get this overbearing, overcontrolling, um, and I've not quite found the balance yet of a of a man that can be be comfortable with this career. Um, but then doesn't override it and doesn't you're not going to do that. You know, no woman of mine is going to be, you know, best friends with another guy on the team. Like, oh, I'm stuck in a car with this. I'm stuck in an office or I've worked 10 days in a row with this person.

Like, of course, I know their c their their coffee order better than I know yours. like these people essentially. So the relationship aspect is one that I don't think we've quite figured out. Um again for men very easy very easy to find women but um I I think there's a tendency that women just stay single in this job um unhappily. So and have your have your friends been supportive of your career?

Yeah. You know what what is so helpful is, you know, my family, especially for me. When I go home, we talk about EP. When I go on dates, we talk about EP. When I'm with my little nieces and nephews, we talk about, you know, auntie stories.

Um, all my best friends are very, very long-term veterans of putting up with my stories and the highs and lows of this career. So, I've been really grateful to have the best friends. and and my my best friend specifically, she is very protective of me and and she knows the industry to this point to where nope, don't do that. Nope, don't take that extra shift, Melinda. No, you've done you've dealt with this management issue before or compare you've been on worse details, so you better buckle up, buttercup, you know.

And so I'm very grateful. It is definitely a strain. You're not you're not there for birthdays and Christmases. you're not um that your friends and your your family are never a priority. You know, even these guys with their wives, you're always going to hang up on your wife to answer a work call.

The client always takes priority over that. You're not going to hang up with your client and be like, "Sorry, my wife's calling." You know, they always come first and and that's difficult. I can see how it'd be very very very difficult for a wife to put up with that. Um but the EP wives that I do know, I have to say, they are incredible humans. It is so much fun for me to get to meet those spouses.

Uh something about a female explaining this job to other women, especially the wives. I don't know what it is about it gives them just a little bit more empathy for their husbands. Like that's why he didn't text me all day. Like, oh, now I understand. Maybe the man can't communicate it to no, we were literally doing crazy stuff all day.

Um, but then when I get to explain it or I get to meet the other half of these guys and and understand the context of their family in, you know, environment or see what rockstar spouses these men find that are so resilient. My my brother, his wife, is the prime example of how much she has sacrificed for this career, for the sake of Caleb having a successful career. M um it's a testament to who you marry really matters and your success is definitely definitely influenced by that. So so the standards high. Yeah.

Yeah. So is what ways has this career changed you personally?

Every way in terms of like world view I think about what I would be like if I never did this. I probably wouldn't make as many crude jokes. I probably wouldn't be as um comfortable with men and and you can't make me blush, you can't out cringe me, you can't um I've heard it and seen it all. um unfortunately. And so there's a there's a part of me that I I know that I would I wouldn't have as much depth in in life experience, but I'm so grateful for what I have.

And when I initially got into this industry, um there's this old quote that really was my kind of guideline guide guiding truth when I stepped in to what does it profit a man to gain the world yet forfeit his soul. And so remembering, you know, you can be on the cool jets, you can be on these cool, really cool trips, but don't lose your soul in this. And protecting that, protecting what keeps Melinda Melinda. Mhm. And um I'm I think I have and it's it's been fun just to to still it's still that, you know, little 21-year-old girl, but I have a lot more cool cool stories now.

And the goal really is to make sure by the time I'm in a nursing home, I have the best stories. And I really am just wanting to make sure all the old men in the nursing home just think I'm the funniest woman there. So, yeah, it's my new life goal. So, let's let's move on to successes, personal successes. So, what what achievement or moment are you most proud of?

I last year had a really record year of doing things I never thought a little non-educated girl could ever ever accomplish. Um, probably my proudest achievement was working with a royal family. Mhm. Um I've worked I worked with quite a few actually of them but I had an opportunity to work with a a royal team and that was a very surreal moment sitting and briefing this team of world class worldass protectors and me being in charge of this event telling these men what they're going to do and having a clear I mean I I remember just I had five minutes to brief them. Hey, this is what's happening.

The king's going to go do this. You're going to do this. I'm going to be posted here. You're going to be posted here. I know this is your country, but this is our event.

So, here's what we're going to do. And I I very respectfully said, I understand. I'm not qualified to tell you. And you are the James Bonds. I am the, you know, a little American here, but um this is this is kind of how this needs to go down.

Yeah. And what was the defining moment in that that was a risk, confident risk. Um, at the end of that event before I left, every single man from that detail came over and shook my head and he said, "Please working with you." And that was just like texting, you know, my family. You will never believe what I did today. Um, and then I ended up getting a a very cool, very special letter from that team.

Wow. Um with the royal seal and everything on it and have it framed and as a special moment of who' have thought, you know, who' have think that 10 years ago this little girl would be in this position briefing, you know, this royal team and here we are. Wow. So that's that was definitely a top top one for sure. Yeah.

So going the other way on that. Yeah. Yeah. Have you had a huge failure that you like turned into a learning experience or I have many. Yeah.

There's there's a life motto that I have forever had to to never waste a good crisis. Um that started very early on in my childhood of okay, that didn't work out. All right, well let's find the value in it. Let's find the humor in it. Um I thrived in COVID.

I mean when natural disasters and covid that's my like show just my stage I have so I become twice as funny I become relaxed I become like quotequ all in the same boat so for failures my my very first time losing a client's trust was such a good lesson for me I was less than a year into this industry I was driving the client And I think we were taking one of the kids back from school and we were in an intersection where we had to cross these railroad tracks and the car in front of me there was a light and you know it turned turned red. Well, the car in front of me stopped way farther back than they needed to and so we were parked stalled on the train tracks and I'm so green. I'm not thinking. And the client in the back, she had a British accent. She's the most posh woman I've ever ever experienced.

And she goes, "Melinda, I don't know if you know, my greatest fear in life is dying by hitting a by getting hit by a train on train track." And she goes, "And you just made that reality possible." And of my heart sunk of, oh my gosh, I just I'm supposed to be the protector and here I just put you in a threatening situation. Mhm. And it took a long time to build that trust back with that client. And a good lesson for me of you're there to be that safe person for the client and moment you lose that trust, it takes a long time to build it back again. That was a really good clear example.

Um, and another one that that's client specific. Another story that is a kind of a good example where same family actually I went on vacation with this family. They were invited onto a mega yacht from another high net worth family. Mhm. I just happened to be able to go on the yacht because I me and one other guy were the only two who brought our passports and it was international yacht.

We were in international waters and so I was able to join on this. I've never had been on any Megie Up before. I didn't know they were a thing. And kind of like Think Below Deck, only five times bigger and a staff of 30 people and everyone's a model and everyone's beautiful. Um and the the one rule that was on the ship was don't take any pictures.

So, of course, what's the first thing you do?

You take pictures. And um the we go and we we go snorkeling. We, you know, we had a the guy that I was with, he was a Navy Seal, and he took the family scuba diving, and there was a certain part, I think we went on to some island, did an excursion, and then we were coming back on the on the little boat to go to the ship. It was a beautiful sunset and I am and I'm standing there and next to me is the people who own the boat and my clients and they're taking pictures of this beautiful sunset with the boat in the background and then I had actually my security director. So, the big big security director um on this trip, he's taking a picture.

And then the the Navy Seal next to me, my senior agent, he's taking a picture as well. So, surely if all of these people are taking a photo, it must be okay for little me to just snap a little shot. So, I do. Um don't think anything of it. We have a great time.

We come back and my team lead the next week goes, "Hey, I need to talk to you. Uh, the client said that you were taking photos on the yacht and they are incredibly offended that you would betray their trust. Um, you need to take that photo off your phone. Um, and they're they're really pissed at you." And you didn't post it on social media. No, very much definitely did not.

Yeah. Um, I'm just keeping it for my like this is what a mega yacht looks like. Yeah. Um, so I'm mortified and I just happen to then have a movement with the client's wife. So I get in the car and um she gets in and I and I turned around and I normally wouldn't do this, but I'm glad I did because I turned around and I was like, I am so sorry for taking that photo.

You know, I just found out that that um that was unacceptable and I just want you to know I deleted it. I will I will be, you know, way more careful, especially with your privacy going forward. And she looks at me and she goes, "Don't be silly, Melinda. We were all taking photos." She goes, "Don't post it on social media. Like, I don't care that you took the photo." So now I'm being told by the principal it's not a big issue.

But here now my team lead is like, "Dude, you were in so much trouble." Like, and so now I'm This team lead wasn't even on the trip. So now I'm the client's okay with it. then there must be some sort of issue. Like where's the disconnect here?

If they're not upset, then who was upset?

And the only people that were on this trip that would have known I took the photo also took a photo. So yeah, explain this to me. Um, a few years later, I've moved on to a different detail and a friend who works on that team and she had come over to my house for dinner and she was like, "I heard your name today at work." I was like, "That's interesting. I haven't worked like there's no one left there that would know me." So, I was like, "How did it come up?" And she was like, "Well, this this girl was telling these stories about you that just I knew they weren't true. So, I got really pissed for you and I was just defending you.

She goes, "Yeah, she said that you were you were taking tons of pictures of the client's yacht and you were posting them and like you would never do that. Like, you're a professional." And I clarified very quickly, "No, I did take those photos." Like, no, that's actually the truth. I should I I made that mistake. And um I didn't post them, but I did take it. And it showed how in this industry we are really catty and really good at making sure everyone knows your failures.

So what I've learned is does a client with your relationship with the client obviously matters. Um the beauty is that I honestly actually most clients that I've worked for have always asked me to come back years later. Um, and she specifically um had asked if I'd come back, you know, five or six years ago. So, I knew there wasn't a betray like she did. There was value that I had.

Um, but when you make a failure, it benefits someone, whether it's a job promotion, whether it's um making them look like they, you know, disciplinary disciplinary actions and and, you know, they they run a tight ship now. Yeah. Um, but the reality of it is I should not have taken that photo. That is still my fault. That is still the truth.

I made a bad judgment call and I would not have that situation if I didn't take the photo. Yeah. Even though the director was taking it, even though the senior agent was doing it, there should have been that judgment. H they said not to take like just don't put yourself in that situation. So, every time I have, you know, been fired, every time I have had failure, it's really up to you to focus on the truth.

Um, cuz that speaks loudly. Um, and owning it and and how redemption is a beautiful thing. Like, you're not a real EP agent unless you've gotten fired. Like, that's unfortunately and given even I was talking to girlfriends last night about it. Um, in a lot of other jobs, it is a red flag for you to be fired.

But in this job, you can be fired for such ridiculous reasons. You can have a I mean, I literally know stories of guys that have just been fired just because they were wearing the wrong shoes that day and the client didn't like it and so get out of my car. I'm going to drive myself. I mean, you can be fired, which is the weirdest things, the weirdest miscommunications, the weirdest um ways to betray trust. I mean, because you are security is such an intimate part of these people's lives.

So when that line is crossed, especially for them, then it doesn't matter if you were in the right or in the wrong, you got fired. So I'm grateful that in this industry there is a threshold for explain that situation. Explain this failure. Um and just don't repeat the failure. Learn from your mistakes.

Own it. You know, own the past. Don't let the past own you. Um, and and I found, you know, nine times out of ten, if you're honest and if you're really upfront about that failure, um, and what you now know the consequences of that and and the the valuable lesson that came out of it, then you hold that value. It's it's not actually a failure.

So, yeah, you can kind of twist it. It's pain. Never waste a good crisis. So, what what do you love most about working in EP?

I love the people. I think that from security school, um, the COPRO team, just even in corporate, I have had the best co-workers. I have the coolest stories that I get to hear day in day out. Um, of my grandpa was a P, so I grew up with so many war stories of incredible, incredible things that humans have done. And now I get to work with some of the world's coolest human beings that have also done equally just incredible stories, crazy experiences being there for such historical moments in history.

Um, and I get to I get to be in the same room with them. I get to be on the same team. That's where I'm humbled is when you know you're with these high caliber humans that are so talented and then little me gets to be on the same team. That's a lot of fun. I just glean as much as I can.

And I just think the personalities that choose this career, it there's not a common trait in a lot of them. It's not like we're all born protector. Like it's not like we all woke up of like I need to be that like honestly security is not my passion. The it is not like I'm not that natural protector type of person. Um you know maybe when I'm a mom someday I'll be protective of my kids, but um that's not a natural instinct for me.

And so getting to learn from people with such diverse backgrounds, it's really fun. It really makes it fun to just hear stories all day. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess on the flip side, what are some downsides of of this?

I know you mentioned like physical personal Yeah. relationships. Is there anything else or It does weigh on your health. Um, we're finding a lot of stories where in in the military world you have like operator syndrome where you're in combat zones for so long that you're in fight or flight that when you're not in a combat zone or your body is not in that high adrenaline state, you can't function. Mhm.

Um, a lot of high stress, high-speed teams have that same issue and it it might show up in different ways. It might show up as just a burnout. Um, that's what most people just end up calling it. And there's obviously more studies for men and physical and psychological outcomes of of what that exhaustion does because, you know, combat there's more men in combat. There's not as many studies for women.

But what I'm finding is women, especially in this industry, have a really high rate of um thyroid failure or of Hashimoto's or um PCOS to where your stress organs cannot keep up. Um it shows up very differently for women versus men. The one thing that I'm hearing a lot of people, and myself included, um is memory issues. And I'd be fascinated to just hear a doctor or a psychologist talk about what happens with your brain when you are in such long periods of stress because there'll be moments where I it's almost like I'm having a slow stroke where I can't fully put a sentence together. I'm 30.

Like I'm too young to have a stroke, you know?

Um, there's times where I can't remember my sister's name, where I know where she lives. I can tell you her social security code. I can tell you her birthday. I can tell you every memory about her. It's It's more than a brain fart or I just lost what I was talking about.

It's like I I can't jostle any memory to what her name would be. Like I can't see it on paper. Um, and when you're in a field, that detail is incredibly important. You have to memorize. I mean, flight manifests.

You have to remember times. You have the schedule. You're the schedule is constantly changing. You have to remember, did I grab the medbag?

Did I grab Did I text the drivers?

Do does the house staff know what's happening?

Did I Did I send out that message?

Did I clock in?

Did I You have all of these to-dos. Um and and I'm still working on how to solve that. Um yeah, you know, some people have found that a low dose of a GLP1 has been really helpful for them. Nicotine, some guys have had really good success with that. Um I think the other part of that's that's kind of the downside of of this job.

90% of this job is not sexy, which sells really well on the internet. you know, the cool James Bond, the Jason Bourne, the Secret Service. Super Secret Service. Exactly. Um, but the 10% that is sexy, you can't talk about.

So, it makes it makes it hard. There's a little bit of That's kind That's one of the biggest misconceptions about Yeah. Yeah. I mean, your your first few years in this field is not going to be fun. You're going to be doing Holmes Falls.

You're going to be sitting in a car. You're going to be sitting in a ConX box on someone's property, literally just watching possums and raccoons and the mailman. That's going to be your life for, you know, two years. And um if you are fortunate enough to then advance to the do a travel team, then you're advanced to be on the jet. That's a whole new world.

Um there's it takes a long time to get to that point. So I think that that's the hard part is um you do a lot of nonsexy stuff. You do a lot of admin work too. Yeah. Yeah.

So so what so for anyone listening and they're aspiring to get into this career, what advice would you give to them?

Do your research on EP schools. There's some really great ones out there. Um, you can do a 28 day course one, you can do a oneweek course one, but that is where you're going to get your baseline knowledge on what the world that you're stepping into is. Mhm. Um, the value especially for ESI for me was understanding how how many different types of security there is.

There's residential security. There's high threat security like PT PTSD PSD um like snipers on the roof. There's um church security. That's a like there's the five pillars of of security where it's a very respectable position of teams that are working in a church or synagogue or mosque environment. That's a very interesting threat field of of people are having, you know, emotional responses.

There's weird body behavior. Um it's very unpredictable environment to where then there's corporate security. There's, you know, regular executive protection um and then corporate security. So, it's it's um what you're doing when you go to EP school is you're just understanding kind of what your options are. it can and celebrity protection too even that's we haven't really talked much about that but that's a very different world than than the corporate world right and so go to a good security school but then ask their recruiter to then connect you with someone who can be almost like your career buddy and this is a big passion of mine um and people are very much welcome to reach out on LinkedIn on advice or um a big passion of mine is kind of a career advocate person to, hey, these are my passions.

These are my god-given skills that I already have. I mean, if you're already an analytical person, and you're very creative, and you're just, you've always naturally been that way, what are you doing in physical security?

Like, you would thrive in Intel. You would, if you love all that nerdy stuff, what are you doing?

I mean, unless you really like it. Um there's there's really good and I think that's the hard part is people don't know about the security industry but then they don't understand the whole world inside of it. There's many different branches and paths that you can have. Yeah. And they're not all the same, right?

So definitely find a person to help explain that to you. Go to the conferences. Go to these mixers. They're uncomfortable. It's really hard.

You have to, you know, look like a dweeb in a little little suit jacket. Yeah. and you're having these uncomfortable conversations and hey I'm so and so I know nothing or I want to go to the school or hey I'm just stepping my toes in the water of this career like tell me what does it look like for you oh you do guard force security cool ask these questions and there's there's value in just brain dumping this information and and absorbing as much as you can so that's my main advice so are there any other like skills skills or certain mindsets that that believe are most helpful. I I think being really open like never saying no to a job. Even if it's a it's a weird you these will come.

Everyone you'll get a random text message be like, "Hey, I need two guys for a detail in LA. This is the pay. This is the dates. Like this is the attire. Can you do it?" Yes or no.

That's very often just passed around. Um say yes. Like you don't know who the client is. You might be with Beyonce. You might be with, you know, a prime minister.

You don't know. But that value is is more than you think. Um there's the the other value of like I like I said, just being open. um you're not even if you have done all these incredible high-speed cool guy barrel twisted freedom fighter secret squirrel stuff um be okay taking these like lower level positions and then have your work show your leadership skills you will move so quickly if you are like I always think like a paramedic is the world's best EMT you're just really good at doing the basic stuff so if you are this superstar just freedom fighter, then do RST really well and then you will very quickly get promoted to the EP team. You'll very quickly get promoted to the the travel team.

You'll your work will speak for itself. Yeah. Um and so it's a little humbling, but it really goes a long way. So looking back at your own path, I guess, are there any things that you wish you'd known when you started?

Uh definitely use more PTO. I don't think I used it for the first five years. Mhm. I think I could have saved myself a lot of lot of trouble. Um and and I know I just said don't say no to anything, but mixed with the the PTO, making sure that you're you are having some sort of a rest.

You're you are super human. You are expected to be a perfect human being in this role, in this job. You're expected to not have bad days because you can't have bad days. M but if the one person on the team who's constantly trying to get less shift less shifts keeps asking you, you don't have to say yes, you know. Yeah.

You can have boundaries. You can you can say no. Your career is going to be okay. Yeah. When you're already on an established team.

That's what I'm that's the clarification. Yeah. So, what what do you hope to see in the future for the EP industry?

I kind of along that same lines, I am really curious on how teams are going to bring more value to the EP agents experience. Meaning, I think CO really shook things up. Mhm. Co really forced um you know some teams didn't have to work for weeks, months because the client said hey we we're going to be stay at home like we'll let you know if we leave we don't need you. Other teams just kept on working.

Um a lot of people got burned out and and realized I don't love this job anymore. So there was a big shift of of people getting out of the industry mixed with all this the EP school shut down. M so now you have no new blood and so the whole cycle of you need these new agents and these new right people that need experience for some of these lower level jobs that's not there. You don't have anyone to fill those roles. Um, but then you've got these superstar, rockstar, high-speed agents that, um, whether you're on a corporate team, whether you're just on a high-speed EP team, that burnout is a real thing.

And I think that we need to be a lot better at rewarding that loyalty to employees. Um, it's one fun thing that I am really enjoying with working with Caleb right now is that is a huge passion of his is making sure that the employees, it's it's an equally good experience for them as it is to be your employer and to what can I do to set you up for success. So, do you need more training?

Then let's get you more training. If you're going to be more confident, more articulate, and be a better professional talking in front of the client, then that's worth that investment for me to send you to that training, to me to develop those skills versus, you know, and training is hard because you don't make any money off of it. It's such a high cost. um you you even schedule-wise it's you got to take half the team off the roster and now everyone else is exhausted while the other guys are are going to get maybe their medical training or maybe they're doing the driving course but I think we can be a lot better at the longevity not getting not getting as burnt out not working these weeks on end and you're going to have those you're going to have the 18our days that's very that's just the job but What can you do to set up your employees for success way better than we are doing?

Um, I'm excited to see how that is. I mean, if you treat them like the Olympic, you know, rock stars that they are, they I mean, there's some definitely some ship in this industry that are just taking advant um there's just there's some very interesting people that can get away with it. Yeah. But there's other people that their their work ethic, their loyalty to the client, they're showing up, they're doing the small things that how do you reward that better?

And how do you make it more worthwhile for them to then be able to go home for their wife's birthday, make it for their kids' birthday, make it for their, you know, wedding anniversary?

Yeah. Um because even, you know, me switching to management now, I'm realizing it just takes a little bit of intention and that goes a long way. Yeah. It's you have to be intentional. It's not hard.

you just have to be intentional. So, I think that's I'm excited to see how that can be contagious. So, what's next for you in your career?

Well, with that, these are these are all kind of just tying in. I am in a season in all honesty where I have checked off everything on my career bucket list. And I'm very grateful to say that I have had certain boxes that from the very beginning I knew that you know the day I step out of EP I would really love to work for a royal family. I would love to be an FTE with a corporate company. I would love to do international ops.

Um you know and so on and so forth. I've accomplished that and I'm in a season now where I'm realizing for 10 years I have lived my client's life. I have not lived Melinda's life. So if my client's a runner, I'm a runner. If my client's, you know, going to Greece, I'm going to Greece and I'm all about Greece.

Yeah. and maybe I should learn Greek, you know, to where I don't go on there's a little bit of the balance that I kind of need to rain back on of but who is Melinda, you know, focusing on my personal life a little bit more of how can I make this sustainable to to still be showing up and still be adding value and still be mentoring the people that I am and and helping, you know, build out programs and, you know, still do stuff that I love. Um, but then how do I shift it into, you know, maybe I go on a trip to New York with a client, I love to travel. That's forever since I was a little girl. That's that's my favorite part of this job.

Um, except the people, I love the travel aspect of it. And so, it takes just a tiny bit of intentionality for me to stay in New York for three more days. Then I go have fun in New York and I have, you know, Melinda makes memories. Not just, oh, you, you know, you did these five stops along the way in this business meeting and you ate at this restaurant because the client went to this restaurant. Yeah.

Like I'm living a little bit more. That's kind of my goal. And we'll see how it goes. So, you've had a successful journey. What what I guess what what ways are you giving back or contributing?

I am really grateful that a lot of people listen to me and have asked for advice and so I have got a lot of LinkedIn messages. I've gotten a lot of referrals and women especially um but a lot of men a lot of men um fresh out of the military have reached out and I've been able to help them with their career and help them all let's focus on this. All right now if you want this promotion or if you you're having this conflict issue then how do we how do we navigate it you know without them having to break their NDA or give specifics. um what do I do?

And and that's the fun rewarding part is seeing that relief of, oh, this isn't just a me problem. Like, oh, this is a common EP problem or always just a mindset shift. You know, a lot of girls especially are my my team lead, all these guys on my team, they just don't respect me. No, that's not a gender issue. You're being a [ __ ] Like, you just won't show.

You're telling everyone what to do. So, approach that differently. Same with men of I'm just having this worst time with, you know, X, Y, and Z. All right. Well, have you tried it this way instead?

So, I do enjoy I do enjoy that aspect of it and and it's fun hearing these people's stories and then seeing them being able to live their life in the skill sets that they have and the god-given talents that they're already born with and being able to thrive. I do. I'd really love that part. So, what kind of legacy do you want to leave behind in this industry?

I I've heard more than once the testimony of I was having a really bad day until Melinda came into the office and then I just laughed the rest of the shift and that's what I want to be known for. Wow. I I do put my heart and soul into this job. I do put my heart and soul into these teams and I know these teams aren't family. It's it is a job.

Um I I know that very well. But I still really care about the people around me. And if I can make someone's day a little bit brighter, if I can make that tense situation of all of us scared shitless on the street, you know, with heroin dealers everywhere and I can make a funny joke and and kind of break the break the tension. I love that part. Yeah.

Um, and so that's again the whole you kind of even full circle moment of a lot of people around you are always having crisises and I'm just the lucky girl that gets I literally think I am the luckiest girl in the world to get to do this job and be around these people and so anything I can do and and I've even moments with clients where they're having a bad day and I've just been able to just drop a little bit of humor and it's changed the whole aspect of the Um, it comes in handy. It's I mean really is medicine for the soul. And so that's my response when I get uncomfortable or when I get scared. I just I'm a lot funnier. Yeah.

And there's worse there's worse things to have. But um but yeah, leaving leaving the industry better when I leave it than when I found it. Yeah. So, I guess what's the biggest takeaway you can give to listeners based on what we've talked about today and your journey?

And I think that Hold on. Dang it. You said it so well, too. Do you want me to reward it?

I was like, ah, I can't find the red letter. Yeah. Do you want me to ask it again?

Yeah, it's good again. So what's what's the biggest takeaway you hope listeners can get from your journey based on today?

I I think there's so many paths this career can take you on. Whether you're doing exciting stuff, whether you're not doing exciting stuff, this is a great industry. This is a great opportunity to get life experience. You get to travel the world. you get to do things that are gonna be in the history books.

I mean, certain meetings I've been a part of, certain events that I've worked at, um, different rooms that I've been in of realizing, oh, this is this is a historical moment. It's very special in that aspect where um for the sake of security there's oftentimes you're in the room with them with the boss when he's making these huge business business deals or these diplomatic deals um with countries and the client will turn to you after the meetings go well how did you think that went you're like um but I I I think it can be a forever job, but it can also be as rich of an experience as you want to be. So, what you put into it is what you're going to take out of it. And is there a is there a guiding principle that you've used to help you through tough times in your career?

Really, just like I said before, just never wasting a good crisis. Yeah. and and not getting lost in the chaos of this industry. There is there's backstabbing. There's an ugly side to this industry as well.

There's a lot of betrayal. There's a lot of if you don't, you know, have blackmail on the guy next to you who's sleeping on shift, then he's got blackmail on you. So, there is an ugly side of that. But then again that that really other life motto that I've used in the beginning was what is it profit a man gain the whole world you can do some really cool stuff but do not get lost in this do not get lost in the sauce of the the coolness of the traveling of the the clout of you you have this certain companies you know as your last name opens any door for you don't get lost in that you're still a little homeschooled girl from Washington state you're still that, you know, little whatever little kid that a boy said that you were pretty boring. Yeah.

And now here you are. Now you're not boring. But don't forfeit who you are. Like you were made to be you for a specific reason. You bring such value to the world.

And nothing looks better than you being comfortable in your own skin. And so have fun with this industry. Take with it what you want out of it and then know when to quit. Know when hey, I've had great experiences. This has been great.

I'm not limited to this. Their world is still your oyster. You can still have incredible experiences and and maybe it opens doors to other connections, but also giving yourself the freedom to live your life. Don't do this forever. Yeah.

You're just going to get more proud. Malinda, thank you so much. Thank you for coming on today. Great sharing your story and Yeah. All right.

Well, see you next time. Yeah.

[Music]